ThePlague Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I got it today, haven't gotten all the way through it yet but I have to say that they really piss me off when they use parts of old songs in new ones. Track 1 in particular Man....do you know Dream Theater at all? This is the third song in a story about Mike Portnoys alcoholism and I think it's very cool that they quote each other. Especially the way they do it: They never directly quote it but usually change the quote somehow. my conclusions were jumped to from the cover art i saw on MP's forum. Then sorry for accusing you! Hehe....the real CD's cover has a proper rope for each ball. ← i understand dream theater's quoting of glass prison and this dying soul in the root of all evil. but i don't think they did as good of a job this time. this dying soul was a fantastic example of them incorporating the old riff into a new song. it was placed right, and fit perfectly with the song. in the root of all evil it sounds forced to me. particularly the "i can feel my body breaking" section. just sounds like they didn't know what to do to make it different from this dying soul. i picked the cd up wednesday, and i see what you mean. the execution of the design is much better than i could see from the online pictures. i still don't like the idea though. just does nothing for me. the cd hasn't fully sunk in for me yet, but i think i'm gonna like it. these walls and i walk beside you were songs i instantly liked. i walk beside you is a perfect example of how james labrie's voice fits with dream theater's music. i can't imagine another singer in that song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nf1d3l Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 i dig it. its got just enough metal edge to be heavy, and the prog to make me drool.. great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrax Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 craptivarium imho all downhill after awake. they need kev back. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 @terrax: I simpy don't understand this attitude. I mean Awake was definately an excellent album. BUT why do people always bash bands which change their style and progress? Do you want to hear the same old stuff over and over again? DT progressed in a great way. I respect bands who are able to deliver something new on every record without losing their trademark sound. To me this is the biggest achievement a band can make.... And both of the last releases are my favorite CD's. Ever thought about what would happen if they release a Images&Words NOW? Times have changed....what was a great progressive masterpiece at the time would be ridiculed as a cheesy 80ies prog cd today.... What is so bad about the new CD's? They are very unique and above most other bands in terms of talent.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlague Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 craptivarium imho all downhill after awake. they need kev back. dave ← funny how you mention awake and needing kevin moore back. moore was involved in very little of the songwriting on awake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrax Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 @terrax: I simpy don't understand this attitude. I mean Awake was definately an excellent album. BUT why do people always bash bands which change their style and progress? Do you want to hear the same old stuff over and over again? DT progressed in a great way. I respect bands who are able to deliver something new on every record without losing their trademark sound. To me this is the biggest achievement a band can make.... And both of the last releases are my favorite CD's. Ever thought about what would happen if they release a Images&Words NOW? Times have changed....what was a great progressive masterpiece at the time would be ridiculed as a cheesy 80ies prog cd today.... What is so bad about the new CD's? They are very unique and above most other bands in terms of talent.... ← talent for talent sake is great, but writing good songs is another thing. i think they have progressed yes, but i think they are spreading theirselves too thin on side projects. and do we really need a 28 minute long song? guys too each his own, some of my favorite bands have released some clunkers lately, ie King's x. if you have watched the liquid drum theater dvd with portnoy, he at one point is charting a song, showing how it changes time signatures like 30 times in a minute, which for technical sake is quite an achievement, but does it make a great song? not bashing guys, just giving my opinion. awake is probably one of my top 5 albums of all time. i think with the bar set so high, it's hard to top it. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrax Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 craptivarium imho all downhill after awake. they need kev back. dave ← funny how you mention awake and needing kevin moore back. moore was involved in very little of the songwriting on awake. ← didnt say he was involved with it all that much, who knows how much he really was, but after awake it seemed to me to go to crap. maybe i'm growing out of that kind of music, who knows. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted June 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 craptivarium imho all downhill after awake. they need kev back. ← talent for talent sake is great, but writing good songs is another thing. i think they have progressed yes, but i think they are spreading theirselves too thin on side projects. and do we really need a 28 minute long song? guys too each his own, some of my favorite bands have released some clunkers lately, ie King's x. Oh yeah. And do we really need yet another 4 minute standard length song? I wish also those crappy guys - what's their name... hadn't written all those boring long instrumentals... Oh yeah... Vivaldi was one of them, innit? Who listens to that stuff??? Wait - aargh I've put that stupid guy Mahler on again... I should hit myself. if you have watched the liquid drum theater dvd with portnoy, he at one point is charting a song, showing how it changes time signatures like 30 times in a minute, which for technical sake is quite an achievement, but does it make a great song? If you would have listened to the actual albums, you would know what song it was. It is a great technical achievement, and by the way it is a great instrumental (it's not a song). The question is not whether changing time sig 30 times a minute makes a great song, as the answer obiously is NO. The same goes for playing straight eights powerchord riffs punk style and every other technical aspect of a song. NO! The question is: Does changing time signature 30 times in a minute PREVENT a song from being a great song? By the way there are certain parts in Awake that change time sig at that pace... Like Erotomania (instrumental again). not bashing guys, just giving my opinion. awake is probably one of my top 5 albums of all time. i think with the bar set so high, it's hard to top it. ← Yeah to each his own fav DT album. For some it's When Dream And Day Unite, for many it's Images and Words, for some less it's Awake, for some it's Falling Into Infinity (strangely there are some), for many it's Scenes From A Memory (probably mine too, not so sure about it) and so on. And for some "craptivarium" as you called it, is the "sixtine chapel of music". Mah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Interesting discussion and interesting answers! talent for talent sake is great, but writing good songs is another thing. if you have watched the liquid drum theater dvd with portnoy, he at one point is charting a song, showing how it changes time signatures like 30 times in a minute, which for technical sake is quite an achievement, but does it make a great song? Then why the hell do you call Ocatavarium crap? It is the most song-driven album by DT ever. Nearly no solos or insanely technical passages. Just great songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrax Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Interesting discussion and interesting answers! talent for talent sake is great, but writing good songs is another thing. if you have watched the liquid drum theater dvd with portnoy, he at one point is charting a song, showing how it changes time signatures like 30 times in a minute, which for technical sake is quite an achievement, but does it make a great song? Then why the hell do you call Ocatavarium crap? It is the most song-driven album by DT ever. Nearly no solos or insanely technical passages. Just great songs. ← inhale guys... not trying to start a flame. just stating i didnt like it. i dont think the songs are as good as thier earlier works. and please dont compare classical music to dream theater. and yes i know what song he was talking about, but again i lost interest in them since awake so i dont know the title. i listened to the cd today again, and it was better, so maybe with a few more spins i might like it more. guess i'm the oddball out. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Sure....no flame war! I want this to be an interesting discussion! Sorry if my post sounded agressive. I was just interested because many old DT fans always diss newer albums and then have no arguments. If you don't like an album no problem. But calling it crap when it is in fact definately an album which is about average compared to everything out there is very wrong in my opinion. It is not my favorite DT album , but it's still damn awesome and miles away from crap if you are somewhat objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Well, Octavarium is one of the best CDs i heard in a while. Say what you will, i found it really great, if only a little too comercial... Weird thing for Dream Theater no? I walk besides you could actually maybe play on radio!! I understant many DT fans will hate that CD, as all CDs are completely differents... Shredders will never like this album since it aint no shred fest... There's about 2-3 solos that are technical. Myself, being a fan of them because of Scenes from a memory, i really prefer their "calmer" stuff so this one is just great for me! and do we really need a 28 minute long song? You did not quite get the POINT of the album? First, its 24 mins. Second, 24/3= 8... Octa is a prefix for 8 btw... now, if you listen to the Octavarium song closely, you will realise it consists of 3 different songs each EXACTLY 8 minutes long. Some of you will say this is something keeping them from making a good song, but i don't think anyone will say the 8th song of this album is bad? and btw. Most of you seem to hate the way James LaBrie sings... I REALLY like it personally, thoug i could understand some poeple would not like it. BUT, think about what it would be like if they had a singer like whoever does the "singing" in Children of Bodom... (got that guy's aweful...) anyways, to each his own Dream Theater CD... There's no way there's not one you'll like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Hehe....I am proof of the opposite to most statements you made. I am a fan of the shreddier DT stuff and still love this CD. I consider JLB an EXCELLENT singer and like the Children of Bodom vocals very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlague Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Say what you will, i found it really great, if only a little too comercial... Weird thing for Dream Theater no? I walk besides you could actually maybe play on radio!! ← just about every dream theater album has a song that could easily be a radio hit. images & words had another day. awake had lie (i think the silent man could've been one too). falling into infinity was a big radio-friendly fest, but anna lee and hollow years in particular. scenes had through her eyes. 6DOIT had solitary shell. most of the train of thought cd could do well as mainstream metal. that's why i don't understand how everyone just ignored them after pull me under. i don't think anyone really argues that labrie isn't a good singer from a technical aspect. his range still blows me away. even though he hasn't gone as high in recent DT albums as he did up to awake, he's still got it. the end of ayreon's human equation album proves that quite nicely. and i like alexi's vocals in children of bodom as well. fits perfectly for my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Just bought it... IMO not as good as the old stuff. Sounds very Kansas like, instead of D T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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