wyldbil Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 OK, here goes... I got bored and took the guts out of one of my wireless transmitters (Nady 201) and hardwired it into the control cavity of my favorite guitar. All went very well until I buttoned it all up. Then came loads of static and interference. Assuming the control shielding was stopping a clear signal from getting out of the guitar, I removed it. A little better but not much. Side note- the transmitter had a short in the cable between the beltpack and the 1/4" jack. That's what prompted me to do the surgery... Facts about the guitar- single pickup (DiMarzio Super Distortion) single volume pot. Early 80s USA Hamer with full control cavity,making room for the transmitter guts and battery, since there is just the one pot in there. The cavity cover is plastic and unshielded. I removed all the copper tape I put on it as well. So, I am thinking that it is some sort of proximity or shielding problem, but nothing I try helps. Any of you have a beter handle on this and maybe some sage advice? Thanks in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 Here's 2 reasons I'd never do that: 1. Guitars last much longer than wireless systems. Do you want to build a guitar with parts that you know will need replacing in a few years? 2. I wouldn't want to have to rewire my guitar just because I lost the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 You might be shorting out the antenna, which is probably just a trace on a circuit board, or there's a grounding problem, maybe a ground loop with the guitar's electronics with the transmitter's electronics. Keep in mind that those systems work on pretty high frequencies, so they're going to be fairly touchy when you start taking them apart. I'm just a ham radio operator, not an RF engineer, but VHF/UHF transmitters and receivers are very susceptible to interference and are often very carefully engineered to work in the setup they were originally designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesj Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 You might be shorting out the antenna, which is probably just a trace on a circuit board, or there's a grounding problem, maybe a ground loop with the guitar's electronics with the transmitter's electronics. Keep in mind that those systems work on pretty high frequencies, so they're going to be fairly touchy when you start taking them apart. I'm just a ham radio operator, not an RF engineer, but VHF/UHF transmitters and receivers are very susceptible to interference and are often very carefully engineered to work in the setup they were originally designed. ← If you get it figured out let me know, I thought about trying it but didnt cause I was scared and couldnt find any info on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Where is the antenna? If you just stick it into your shielded guitar cavity, of course you will get a lot of interference! The shielding will block the reception... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldbil Posted July 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Here's 2 reasons I'd never do that: 1. Guitars last much longer than wireless systems. Do you want to build a guitar with parts that you know will need replacing in a few years? 2. I wouldn't want to have to rewire my guitar just because I lost the receiver. ← 1)I have had the same wireless stuff for years and years. Take care of it and it lasts. I have to keep a supply of the power supply transformers as they seem to like to burn out, but otherwise no worries. The transformers are cheap through Parts Express. (<$3) 2)Used older model Nady diversities are out there, relatively easy to find and cheap to boot. No worries. I already have two backups and several transmitters. Your points are well taken, but... I'll still do things my way with my stuff. I like to step outside "normal" boundares, especially with my well-worn players. It's all just good fun to me. Once I get the noise problem ironed out, this will be one seriously cool stage axe. Won't have time to get back into it for a couple weeks with band rehearsals and being in the studio making my album. After I get to play with it some more, I'll be back to report on my progress or lack thereof. Maybe some more questions... Thanks all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Is your guitar shielded? If so, not only have you introduced a strong RF source inside your shield, but you've surrounded your transmitter with the equivalent of a Faraday Cage, which is probably playing hell with its ability to transmit. Unless you're willing to make a separate cavity for your wireless, electrically isolated from the audio electronics (including power supplies), and some sort of external antenna, your results are probably not ever going to be acceptable. But by all means, have fun playing with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldbil Posted July 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 (edited) Thanks Lovekraft- those are the kind of hints I was looking for. Figure I'll keep trying different combinations of shielding, no shielding, new cavities, whatever until it finally works to my satisfaction. But, pleae re-read my original post. I detailed my adventures with shielding there. Edited July 31, 2005 by wyldbil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 you've surrounded your transmitter with the equivalent of a Faraday Cage, which is probably playing hell with its ability to transmit. That's the point I was making, which seems to have been overlooked. Anyhow, I would try the seperate cavity approach, but I am still a little skeptical about that even working - there's too many things on the guitar that could cause interference unless you have an "electronic direct line-of-sight" between the transmitter and the receiver (don't take that literally, it's just a figure of speech). When you put it in a shielded guitar cavity, you take that away. That's one good reason why it's a belt/guitar mounted device, aside from being designed to be used with any guitar. That aside, I like the idea. That's probably the main reason why I don't use a wireless - I don't like belt mounted things plugged into my guitar, it's just a hassle and cumbersome IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 That's the point I was making, which seems to have been overlooked. You're right, of course - I missed your post completely, sorry, Paul! ...I detailed my adventures with shielding there.I read your detailed description as meaning that you removed the copper tape from the plastic cavity cover - if I misinterpreted what you said, mea culpa, but since that rear cavity cover is going to fit fairly snugly against some part of your body in playing position and your strings are grounded, the back is still effectively shielded when you're playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 You're right, of course - I missed your post completely, sorry, Paul! No worries LK. wyldbil, if you do that working, please let us know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldbil Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Turns out the problem was all the electronics in my living room! I discovered this while shaking down my gear before a gig last weekend. All my wireless stuff made the same noise in this part of the house. I set up my gear at the club I was playing at last Saturday, fired up the hardwired guitar..and.. NO WORRIES! Worked like a charm. I ended up using that guitar for most of the show, and it wigged out a couple of gearhounds in the audience. "No cord, no transmitter... ***...?" Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Oh, and a big "NYAAAAH!" to any negative nellies. Sorry to disappoint ya'll with my success. Ultimately, it turned out to be a cool thing. I'll be shopping for more cheap Nady Channel F transmitters to pop into a couple more of my favorite guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Cool, whaddaya know?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Congratulations. The only reason I naysaid it was because that's not my thing. I don't really like guitars that rely on batteries, not to mention a receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesj Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 So I take it, all I have to do is put it in? No problems with any other "sheilding" or types of "interference" ? Can it be that simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Yeah, you'd be surprised what can interfere with a relatively weak UHF/VHF signal in a living room. When I was selling Garage Door Openers for Sears we'd get a ton of people in after Christmas who couldn't open or close their garages from their cars. Turns out the PS2, Gamecube, or Xbox they bought little Johnny for Christmas and was installed in the bedroom directly above the GDO put out enough interference to block out the transmitters. Most consumer electronics get the bare minimum interference testing to keep costs down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldbil Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 So I take it, all I have to do is put it in? No problems with any other "sheilding" or types of "interference" ? Can it be that simple? ← Well it was for me. James, I would advise you to proceed with caution. After all, your mileage may vary! On the other hand if I can do it, anyone should be able to. The one thing I would mention is that I have a really good intuitive sense of how to wire things by looking at them. Must be some sort of savant, because I sure don't have any actual knowledge or training! Just a sense of "well, that goes there, so now it needs to go there". I buggered up the circuit board in a couple of spots and had to do some really delicate soldering to pull it all together. That intuition saved my bollocks in those instances as well. Now if I can just sort out that intermittently noisy short in my other single pickup guitar which has the stutter switch and the push/pull coil-tap. It should get the next permanent wireless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Back when Neil Schon had guitars made with his name on them, he put wireless units in them. That was back in the late 80's I think. Sorry to say that you idea isn't new, but it is cool and I've often wondered why more guitars don't come with this retrofit. It makes sense if you are a pro and play on stage a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 I've often wondered why more guitars don't come with this retrofit Come to think of it, that is a good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldbil Posted September 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 Back when Neil Schon had guitars made with his name on them, he put wireless units in them. That was back in the late 80's I think. Sorry to say that you idea isn't new, but it is cool and I've often wondered why more guitars don't come with this retrofit. It makes sense if you are a pro and play on stage a lot. ← Well, yeah. Paul Stanley had some Explorers with built-in wireless back in '76-'77. That memory is what made me want to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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