Three At Once.

[j. pierce]

http://homepage.mac.com/sfjoshua/PhotoAlbum2.html

I'll post more pictures when the projects are done, but here's where I'm at now. I lucked out and managed to get the finish sprayed last month, before it started to get too cold (and wet!) to do it here in Vermont. (well, at least outside; I don't have a spray booth) Ideally, I'd like to refinish these next summer, since I think I can do a better job, but this will have to do for now. These are all done with KTM-9 clear coat and System Three Epoxy; I may post more later detailing my experiences with the stuff so other people can avoid some of the pitfalls I had.

Last summer I did my first from-scratch build, a maple-through, mahogany body with a body design pretty much in line with one of these guitars. It came out sounding great, playing okay (It's since been fixed up and plays real well now) but looking, well, not so great. But I learned a heck of a lot, mostly from this place (I started the thing with with nothing but Melvyn Hiscocks book and a few parts from LMI - I didn't even realize how much info was on places like this!) I figured I could do better, so I read up and learned an awful lot and experimented.

As spring came round and I got tired of tweaking electronics, I dug out a bunch of the mahogany I had left from the first guitar and started building practice necks. I had enough wood for three, and they came out pretty darn good, so I figured I had to build some guitars around them and bought some more wood. (and now I have more leftover wood and will have to build more guitars next summer, I suppose!) Everything on these guitars was really done only as practice, I wanted to experiment with different things, so I tried a bunch of stuff and different techniques out. As such, there are a lot of little imperfections I let slide, not really thinking these where ever going to be real, finished, guitars. But they started looking pretty good unless you where up close, so I figured I'd finish 'em. Still have to do the nuts, fretting, install hardware, buff up the finish, etc.

The black guitar is a 6 string copy of my cheap Sanatoga 12 string, (which is vaguely Rickenbacker-inspired, I guess?) since I loved the shape so much but wanted something a little better. Rosewood board with my first attempt at inlaying. (I need better bits and a better router base. I also tried to go for a "handdrawn" look on the hearts - I should have just tried for perfect and excepted "handdrawn" rather than attempting "handdrawn" and getting "lumpy") Wenge top, which was originally only supposed to be darkened somewhat, not black. The System 3 epoxy filler darkens some woods much more than you would think. (I.E., wiping it wet is not a good indicator of what the wood might look like finished in all instances) 5 ply binding, mahogany back/neck. Will have gold hardware, debating a kind of large, multi-ply tortoise pickguard. Maybe a BWB one.

The other two, bass and guitar, are cocobolo boards, walnut tops, mahogany bodies/necks. There's a layer of veneer (three on the guitar) to make a pinstripe where the tops join the bodies. Chrome hardware on these, bigbsy on the guitar. Thinking an LP Jr. style pickguard on the guitar. ( I think guitars look a little naked w/o pickguards.

All three of these are set necks, with fairly long tenons hidden under the tops. All those tops are three pieces, because I didn't have the wood to get across the whole top in two. The colouring on the walnut guitar looked like it matched a good deal more until I hit it with the System Three epoxy filler.

I didn't mean to ramble on so much. Sorry. I'll post more pictures when they're all done.

[bugman96]

They look nice. What did you use for the body edge of the walnut/mahogany guitar

[Doctor Madness]

Hey. All topwoods (fingerboard, headstock and body) are looking very nice. Great choice!

[Nitefly SA]

ive been waiting for some one to do one of those airline-esque guitars, they look great

[eclipse666]

What type of pickups will be going into these babies?

[j. pierce]

They look nice.  What did you use for the body edge of the walnut/mahogany guitar

←

If you're talking about the one with the closeup of the edge, It's a 1/4" walnut top, on top of the mahogany body, but sandwiched between are three of the coloured (W/B/W in this case) .6mm veneers from LMI; then I just went around all the edges with a 45 degree bearing-guided routing bit, which makes the veneers show up as a pinstripe/faux binding kind of look all around the edge of the body. Kind of like a multi-ply pickguard, I guess.

I wanted beveled edges, but I also wanted binding; this seemed like the easiest compromise. I'm actually really like the look, because you get to see some of the body wood from the back of the guitar.

Nitefly -

Yeah, that's where the design came from! I kind of forgot, I just used the same full scale drawings I had made from my first attempt at a guitar. I love the look of those old Airlines. I'd like to try to make a guitar in this shape with that mosrite-esque body carve, similar to how the photos of the Airlines I've seen look like they've been molded.

Eclipse -

I'm going with GFS Retrotron p'ups for now in the guitars, with the plans to swap the pickups around with other types and brands in future until I figure out what I want. Right now the walnut topped guitar will have the P90s in a humbucker size, and the black one is going to have one of those filtertron-esque jobbers.

The Bass is going to have Dearmond pickups, the TurboJet models. I had them kicking around, and really like them, and they route such that I can swap them for jazz bass type pickups with little to no modification to the body.

[j. pierce]

http://homepage.mac.com/sfjoshua/PhotoAlbum3.html

I finished these at the end of October last year, and just now got around to taking pictures - (I don't have a camera) but I should have cleaned them up before the photos. They sound great, especially the chambered black mahogany/wenge one. I've since thrown a '59 style humbucker in the bigsby'd guitar. I'm really happy to have a guitar with a neck wide enough for me. (the walnut topped trem'd guitar has an almost classical-width fret board, great for my abnormally long fingers)

There's a lot of finish-type problems with these, and at some point I'd like to strip and refinish them, but they look good from far away, so I'm letting it slide for now, as I work on a couple more projects, I'd rather move forward and learn more techniques right now, and these really aren't getting seen too much outside of a few local shows, and the non-builders out there seem to be impressed enough. Finish problems are mostly from me not sanding the System 9 epoxy grainfill enough prior to spraying the KTM-9 - the finish is mostly dead smooth ( a few bits of that wide open wenge grain showing through, but mostly under the guard) but looks a little "ripply" because the epoxy grain fill underneath isn't smooth enough. I also had some problems with my stain (I forgot to mix in a binder) lifting under the KTM-9 and blending around - I managed to scrape most of it off the binding, but it looks like I missed a bit. There's a also a few binding imperfections.

Also, for passive bass-p'up fans, if you can still find the discontinued de'armond turbo jet pickups (I got them through an ebay auction from Angela's electronics for like, 15 bucks each) they sound amazing for rock and roll, and can get a great jazzy reggae tone too. (Although I like to think part of that is the mahogany set-neck and the tenon that goes all the way to the bridge) The GFS Nashville (not the "hot nashville") p'up in the chambered guitar sounds great too. Love the GFS humbucker sized P90 in the neck, (the bigsby guitar) but in the bridge, it kind of sucked, I've since replaced it with an unknown no-name 59 style humbucker and really like the sound much better. Good mix.

The cocobolo fret boards on the matching set are great, I wish the stuff didn't make me ill. Maybe a better dust mask would help.

[Jon]

Everything looks great! I love how gold hardware compliments a nice black dye / paint job.

Invest in a better mask, your health is MUCH more important than putting that money towards an extra board or two. I spent $80 getting 2 masks and have not had any chest problems in over 2 months. Once again, your health is much more important! Cocobolo is pretty dangerous stuff, apparently you aren't extremely allergic to it. A few cases I have heard are when ones throat swells completely to where they cannot breath. Get a good mask!

edit: I'll link the ones I purchased if I am able to find them on the internet, I purchased them at Woodcraft.

Edited June 8, 2006 by Jon

[Ben]

I really like all 3

the LP is probably my favourite, although the black one is cool too

[j. pierce]

Everything looks great! I love how gold hardware compliments a nice black dye / paint job.

Invest in a better mask, your health is MUCH more important than putting that money towards an extra board or two. I spent $80 getting 2 masks and have not had any chest problems in over 2 months. Once again, your health is much more important! Cocobolo is pretty dangerous stuff, apparently you aren't extremely allergic to it. A few cases I have heard are when ones throat swells completely to where they cannot breath. Get a good mask!

edit: I'll link the ones I purchased if I am able to find them on the internet, I purchased them at Woodcraft.

Yeah - I thought I was just getting sick the first time, and then it hit me again as I was working with the cocobolo boards again - contact doesn't seem to bug me to much, but if I rub my face or get dust in my nose or throat, I get yucky flu/cold symptoms. Remembering not to touch my face, (wearing gloves so if I need to, I take the gloves off) and wearing a mask and vaccuuming my clothes after working with it took care of things. Somehow my mask got dust *inside* of it (I've been using the disposable kind) and it certainly didn't help. After I realized the cocobolo was the problem, I took precautions, and have pretty much decided to just not work with the stuff. I might give it another try at a later date with better protection and maybe a dust setup, but right now it's just not worth it. Working it with a plane instead of a router when tapering helped, shavings are a lot harder to breath than dust.

[Mickguard]

I bought a respirator with replaceable filters for 20 euros. The filters themselves cost from 7 euros (for dust) to about 10 euros (solvents) for the pair. I replace the dust filters from time to time --I don't use solvents that much, so those filters are still good.

Really, I'm so used to wearing the respirator that I don't even think about it anymore. In a way, I'm no longer comfortable NOT wearing it. It doesn't matter what kind of wood I'm working with, dust is dust, I don't need it in my lungs. A benefit of the respirator over a dust mask (which don't really work well with the kind and amount of dust I make all the time) is that they don't make my (safety) glasses fog up.

I also wear headphones at all times--as soon as I turn on a machine or have to hammer something.

Makes a good warning for my kids too --when they see me wearing my safety gear, they know not to come around.

The whole idea is to have fun building, not to make yourself ill.

Like the guitars by the way -- I hadn't seen the rick guitar before. I also like that kind of Supro vibe on the single cut.

[Jon]

This is exactly what I use.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=2089

Like I've said, it works great. I haven't had any chests problems at all since I purchased one. I highly recommend it.

[Mickguard]

This is what I use (this one's a kit fitted with solvent filters)

Here's what it looks like without filters:

[Mattia]

I"ve got a proper 3M respirator, one of these:

http://www.allergybegone.com/3m7502.html

They have an even cheaper one (10 bucks on amazon, without the filters), and you can swap out cartridges for fine dust (P2), organic solvents, etc. and the cartridges are very readily available. The solvent filters need to be stored airtight, to keep them functional for as long as possible (ie, not load up the carbon), but it's good stuff.

I don't quite trust plain dust mask type things.

[j. pierce]

Thanks for all the links on filters, guys.

I definetly wear something whenever I'm doing anything that creates dust - I just don't think what I was using was good enough, so it's good top hear what other folks are using. Most of my work is with hand tools, so there's a lot of sawing and and hand-planing outside where I probably should be wearing a mask, but probably aren't (shavings are hard to breath in) but I know I should be better. Any time I'm sanding, by hand or machine, or routing, or spraying I'm wearing at least something (I borrow my dad's respirator for spraying) but yeah, the disposable masks I'm using just aren't enough, so it's good to hear what other folks use.

I don't worry about hearing protection so much because so much of what I do is hand tools (although I do wear something when fretting because the pound of the hammer is loud after a while) because I don't have the workshop space for powertools. (One of those guitars was cut with a coping saw!) But I've got hearing protection on for anything that's loud. But yeah, I need to be more careful, although I like to think I'm not awful, but this is really important and I'm glad everyone else here is taking care of themselves.

[Mickguard]

But yeah, I need to be more careful, although I like to think I'm not awful, but this is really important and I'm glad everyone else here is taking care of themselves.

Sounds like you're doing what it takes, actually.

The other advantage of the respirators is that they're more comfortable to wear. And it looks really cool too, like you're emerging from a World War Three battlefield...

[ToneMonkey]

My reporator is prety much the same as Mattia's. Looks very Star Wars, I love it.

Those axes look really nice. I love the black one. I normally think that those pickups are butt ugly but I think I'm going to have to have a rethin because they look lovely on that one. Very very nice mate.

And that is a lovely pair of lamb chops you're growing.

[Mattia]

Thanks for all the links on filters, guys.

I definetly wear something whenever I'm doing anything that creates dust - I just don't think what I was using was good enough, so it's good top hear what other folks are using. Most of my work is with hand tools, so there's a lot of sawing and and hand-planing outside where I probably should be wearing a mask, but probably aren't (shavings are hard to breath in) but I know I should be better. Any time I'm sanding, by hand or machine, or routing, or spraying I'm wearing at least something (I borrow my dad's respirator for spraying) but yeah, the disposable masks I'm using just aren't enough, so it's good to hear what other folks use.

I don't worry about hearing protection so much because so much of what I do is hand tools (although I do wear something when fretting because the pound of the hammer is loud after a while) because I don't have the workshop space for powertools. (One of those guitars was cut with a coping saw!) But I've got hearing protection on for anything that's loud. But yeah, I need to be more careful, although I like to think I'm not awful, but this is really important and I'm glad everyone else here is taking care of themselves.

Honestly, dust from your saw is more likely to be dangerous than dust (shavings, whatever) from a router, which just makes a mess, mostly, but doesn't tend to produce all that much fine dust. Respiratory protection is a must, and hearing protection is as well if you're using loud tools (I don't use it when using my drill press, which has a quiet induction motor, but certainly do when I'm using a router or a hand drill or a dremel, even.) I don't wear any protection when using chisels or planes, because as you say, shavings ain't so much of an issue.

(also, if you're making that much noise fretting, you're probably smacking the stuff too hard!)

The importance of good shop safety cannot be underestimated. The first 40-50 bucks you spend on guitarmaking, IMO, should be 1) Hiscock's MYOEG 2) A good respirator 3) cheap earplugs (upgrade to something better later).

[Setch]

Since we're talking repsirators, here's what I go for.

For sanding, routing, etc - and dusty operations, I use this fella:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/6/product...irace-31841.htm

It's *very* comfy, and the large surface area of the filters means they last a long time, and it gets much less sweaty and gross than smaller masks. Comfort is important, because you get to wear this guy for quite long spells. It also has a big exhaust valve, and vents downwards, so it doesn't fog safety glasses.

For solvents, spraying etc, I use this fella:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001ZPXL...lance&n=3375251

Also pretty comfortable, or as comfortable as can be expected.

It's also critical to get masks that fit. If they don't seal perfectly, you may as well not wear them at all. The Trend airace has a test plug, which you use to plug the incoming airway. With the airway plugged, you put the mask on and breathe in - the vacuum created should hold the mask on your face without any straps. If it doesn't, you're not going to be protected. The 3M is easier to test - put it on, and find something stinky. If you can smell it *at all* with the mask on, it doesn't fit, or the filters need replacing.

[Mickguard]

For solvents, spraying etc, I use this fella:

Actually, for solvents, I've decided to go a different direction --I'm just not going to use them anymore. Well, not for paint.

So I'm working with a natural oil-based varnish (wrote about that in a different thread). It's not easy to use --I'm trying to figure out the best way to apply it right now. I've pretty much figured out that you have to filter it before each use (because it skins up pretty easily, which leaves particles in the finish). And I'm going to see if I can find a spray rig for it. And I don't know yet how it will perform in the long term. But I really like it that it's non-toxic.

If I decide to go back to paints, then I'm going to find a body shop that is outfitted to do this. Better their ventilation system than my drafty ol' garage.