fookgub Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) I'm working on refinishing a mahogany guitar body. So far, I have filled and primed, then sprayed about 8 coats of color using Duplicolor spray cans. At this point, the color is even, but the surface is not smooth. It has a bit of orange peel, and is slightly rough, which I think is because of the distance I sprayed at (about 12"). I was planning to take the guitar to an auto body shop for clearcoating, but I'm not sure if I should sand it smooth first. The tutorial Guitar ReRanch says not to sand metallic colors, but I'm not sure if my paint qualifies. It's not metal flake or speck, but it is sort of metallic in the way that most car paints are. So, should I sand it, or just take it to the shop as is and let them do whatever prepwork needs to be done? EDIT: I forgot to mention that I haven't picked out a shop to do the clearcoat yet. I know it's a long shot, but can anyone recommend someone in the Austin area to do it? Edited December 31, 2005 by fookgub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 I'm not sure why you put on so many color coats? My understanding is that the color coat is simply to give the guitar color...so one coat should do it, as long as the guitar is covered completely. I don't see any reason to sand that --assuming your sealer is smooth, and your primer is smooth, there's no reason the color coat shouldn't be smooth. Assuming no drips, it should be good to go without sanding. Then you apply multiple clear coats. Some sources say to sand back after a few clear coats, others say don't bother. Since I use rattle cans, I don't bother to sand --can't believe it'll make that much of a difference. It makes sense to sand the final coat, once it has cured sufficiently, because that's the surface that will be visible. This is all based on my admittedly limited experience. I'm just saying what works for me, after a lot of reading and some trial and error too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 It took about 3 coats to get complete coverage. After that, I decided to continue spraying to make sure there were no light spots, and I just kept spraying until I ran out of paint. This is my first time refinishing, so I wanted to make sure I did a good job. Also, I think I sprayed from a little too far away, which I why the paint didn't cover very well. Right now, the paint is very smooth (I spend a long time prepping for color). There are no runs, splatters, or sags... just a bit of orange peel. I think I'm going to take it to a friendly looking body shop tomorrow and see what they have to say about it (I know it seems kind of like cheating, but the clear coat is so important, and I just don't feel up to it). I've been clearcoating a similarly painted electronics cavity cover with enamel, and it's coming along nicely, so I think the body is probably ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 I wouldn't worry about the orange peel, that's not going to show once you've got the clear coat on there and after it's been sanded back and polished. I've had no problems using spray cans for the clear coat. My last guitar took 5 cans to do somewhere between 10 and 15 coats. I had another can but decided to quit while I was ahead --no drips! The biggest worry is going to heavy on the clear... What works for me is to do a pretty light coat, wait a minute or so for that to set, then do a medium coat over that...I want it to be kind of shiny, but not too much, because that's when it starts running on me. I walk away, come back again after half an hour, do another light coat, then medium coat, walk away, etc... Another thing is I always start a pass with the can pointing to the side of the guitar, then once the spray is flowing, I swing it over the guitar. Because the biggest risk of spitting is at the very beginning of the pass. Also I keep my finger very steady on the trigger, to keep the flow even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I took it to a shop today, and they recommended that I sand back a little and recoat it. He said that I my coats weren't "wet" enough, and it might show in the clearcoat. He also said that I should bring the body in for clearcoating very soon after I'm done spraying... like 12 hours or less. He said that would help the clear stick to the paint. I'd never heard of this before, but I'm not an expert... Also, the shop I went to quoted me $60 for just the clearcoat, no buffing or anything. It's not outrageous, but it seems a tad pricey. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 they may be trying to rip you off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledzendrix1128 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 conisdering you dont want to use spray cans, (about 5 bucks a can, if your figure around 5 cans total that 25)id say thats fairly reasonable. i mean, if you think about it... its gonna cost them quite a bit if they are used to clearcoating cars and you come in with a guitar body. plus, you will get a professional quality finish from them, something that you cant garauntee on your first go round at finishing a guitar. If it were me id use rattlecans, but id say 60 is fairly reasonable if you dont want to have a go at it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Two pack clearcoat isn't cheap. It costs around that much just for the product(for me, I'm sure they get it a bit cheaper since they're buying in bulk). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 $60 seems fair to me, assuming they do a good job. Also, I recommend a quick levelling of the colour coat before spraying clear. I have found that dark colours under a clear gloss act like the silver of a mirror, so unevenness in this coat can cause wierd distortion of reflections, which creates the illusion of uneven surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I pay 10 euros a can, I used 5 cans on the last one...this guy will do a pro job for $60? Go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to take it around to a few other shops because... well, that's just the way I am. But if you guys think $60 is fair, I'm inclined to agree. After all, a pro luthier would charge at least that, and probably more. Hopefully it'll be finished and assembled by the end of next week, and I'll finially be able to post my first pictures on PG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Mickguard(cringe) compared his $50 of spray can clear to what you'll be getting at a shop. Realistically, you're getting a better deal from the shop since two pack clear will be much more durable than anything in an aeresol can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Umm, that's was kind of the point.... wasn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Suppose so. I just want to impress upon him that $60 is not bad considering what he's getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Just for fun, call up Erlewine Guitars there in Austin and ask what they'd charge for the same job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Mickguard(cringe) c ← I AM the Mickguard! Stand back or I'll drill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I ended up taking it to a different shop, and they charged me $25 under the table. Should be ready to go tomorrow around noon, so it won't be long now. Btw, thanks for the hint on Erlewine Guitars, marksound. A guy at Guitar Rez mentioned them to me, but I had completely forgotten. I may have to call them when it comes time to mount the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 $25 under the table? Geez. You got off lucky. They must have found it to be such an interesting request that they'd cut you a deal, a really good deal. I'll be interested to see how good a job they do. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signguy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Most likely they had a bunch of clearcoating to do that day. Being in business, I know that a large portion of the cost involved in doing any job is setting up to do it and cleaning up after. The material to spray that body costs next to nothing for them, but to have someone mix some clear up, get into the booth, spray it and clean up afterwards can cost you an hours labour! Also, what if they got a big sag in it and needed to repair that area... Good deal! Hope your luck continues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Most likely they had a bunch of clearcoating to do that day. I'm not sure if they did or not. They guy was saying he'd have to give it a "base" so the poly wouldn't react with my color coat. He said he hadn't sprayed that base in a long time. I think I just got lucky and found a shop that was not too busy and had some helpful people. The manager said "it was never done here," so I'm pretty sure the painter gets to pocket the whole $25. Nice manager, huh? Good deal! Hope your luck continues! Thanks. *keeps fingers crossed* Hook 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ok, so I got the body back today. Turns out the price was $35 all along. I just had trouble understanding his thick accent . In any case, it turned out pretty good. From dead on, the guitar looks great. From an angle I can see a bit of orange peel and some buildup around the edges and screwholes. There are also some very light scratches, probably from the cloth he wiped it down with. The painter said to wait a week, then wax it, but I'm not sure what to do. I don't think waxing alone will get rid of the orange peel and buildup, but I'm desperate to avoid the buffing process. As I understand it, a true finishing would require: 1. Wetsand starting at 400 or 600 grit and stepping up to 2000. 2. Buffing with at least two grades of compound. Checking the prices of online suppliers, this means a cash outlay of at least $60 for a bunch of stuff I won't be reusing anytime in the near future. It also means hours of tedious sanding, and I'm really worried about sanding through the finish. So, do I have any options? What would happen if I just hit it with some Turtle Wax or similar car polish and called it a day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 bump. The requisite week is up... any opinions on what I should do next? I'm still wondering about car polish/wax, and whether it would cover the (slight) problems in the clearcoat. If not, I suppose I'd be willing to wetsand, but I'm really paranoid about sanding through, so I'd like to start at the highest grit possible. What would that be? 400? 600? Assuming I do decide to sand it out a little, I'm still unsure about what to do next. I'd like to avoid buying all the stuff mentioned in LGM's tutorials, so I'm wondering about car products for this, too. As far as car products, I'm really in the dark as to what's available and what they are used for. Could anyone shed some light on that for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 If it's essentially pretty darn flat, start wetsanding to level with 1200 or even 1500 grit, then go to compounds and polish. Go slow, and you're very, very unlikely to sand through anything. DO NOT start as low as 400 or 600; I only use those prior to shooting the last 1 or 2 clearcoats, as fine though they are, they can be agressive. If the coat's rough-ish, I'll start at 800, but never any finer than that on the final coat. If I have to go finer, I didn't level well enough prior to shooting the final clear, or I really messed up the last coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 +1 The best tip I've read is to start with a higher grade --like 1200, and if that's not enough to get out the scratches, you can bump down. But there's no point in giving yourself extra work if you don't need it. But you want to be really careful around the edges, it's really easy to sand through there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks for the replies. I decided to test my skills on the control cavity cover first by wetsanding it to 2000 grit. I have to say I'm a little concerned with the results. The tutorials I have read say that by 2000, you're into the polishing phase, and the piece should be shiny and reflective. Mine is very dull and grey, but I don't know what I could have done wrong. I'm going to buy a bottle of finesse it tomorrow, and see what happens. Hopefully it will shine right up, because otherwise I may be in over my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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