Tremsetter And String Tension

[christhegreat]

Hi. I've got a floyd rose equiped guitar, and I'm having problems keeping in tune when palm muting or simply resting my hand while playing. I heard of the Hipshot Tremsetter, but I'm wondering if it will make the whole guitar feel stiffer. I mean I like the guitar because bends are effortless, super smooth, and I got other guitars with more string tension, stiffer feeling to play other stuff. So will the use of a tremsetter make the bends harder, let's say as much as a hard tail?

Thanks.

Edited May 17, 2006 by christhegreat

[crafty]

Try the Tremol-No instead. It's designed to help stabilize the bridge without adding stiffness to the system, and one of our own PG'ers here has designed and licensed it to Allparts.

www.tremol-no.com

[mikhailgtrski]

Try the Tremol-No instead. It's designed to help stabilize the bridge without adding stiffness to the system

If I read the FAQ correctly, it doesn't do exactly the same thing as a Tremsetter. Sounds like you can have it full floating (off), locked (on), or blocked for dive-only.

The Tremsetter stabilizes the bridge while retaining full floating tremolo function. In my experience, it greatly improves the tone and sustain of a Floyd-equipped guitar, and it actually makes bending (and finger vibrato) easier, since the trem doesn't sag forward when you bend strings (or palm mute or rest your hand on the bridge). A regular Floyd (or any floating trem) might give you the illusion of easier bending, but you actually have to bend farther to achieve the same note, again due to the sag effect. You are also losing string energy when the bridge sags - this (besides the lack of string-to-body coupling) is what causes the decrease in tone and sustain.

(In case you were wondering, there's no difference in string tension between different bridge types - tension is purely a function of string gauge and tuning pitch.)

Nothing wrong with the Tremol-no, they're just different animals.

Mike

[christhegreat]

Well, string tension should be more than string gauge and pitch, because the angle used to achieve the proper pitch changes. With a tune-o-matic, usually (because you can always bring up the stop piece) it feels more stiff. Two guitar with 10's, the same string action, but with different bridge types will feel completly different as for string tension. The tune-o-matic is gonna need more strenght to bend.

Anyways, that's what I have come to feel with time, using both type of guitars. If I'm wrong tell me.

But as for the main issue, the tremsetter. Even though it makes string bending easier, does it stiffen the main playing feel?

[GregP]

You're wrong.

JK, you're not entirely "wrong", but you're definitely labouring under a slightly false impression.

The string tension of any guitar of the same scale length (ie. 25.5, 24.75) with the exact same strings will be exactly the same, period, no matter what bridge is used. It's only the length of the string between the nut and the bridge that matters in terms of pitch, and any guitar with those 2 things identical will have identical string tension. By extension, when you change pitch (ie. bending your string) the tension MUST change by the same amount, no matter what bridge style is used, in order to reach the exact same target note. It's just physics.

That doesn't mean you're insane, though. Because of things like the "sag" Mikhail mentioned, different bridge/nut styles will definitely "feel" different as you bring them to pitch during a bend. But the same amount of actual "work" (ie. pure expenditure of energy and creating a change of string tension) is actually done.

Regarding the TOM: try this as an experiment: bring up the stop tailpiece without touching the tuners. As you do, the strings will gradually detune and therefore get slacker. BUT, now you're not at correct pitch anymore. To counteract this, you need to tune up your strings again. Tuning up the strings is by definition, adding more tension to them. So you haven't really changed the string tension at all by the time you've re-tuned. It may or may not (depending on how sensitive you are to these kinds of things) change the feel, but I mainly vote "not". Frankly, I've no idea why stop tailpieces are adjustable!

Greg

[Firefox2551]

Gredp is quite correct.

The only reason a stop tailpiece is adjustable is too make sure the angle from tailpiece to saddle is not too severe which would cause string breakage.

[Mattia]

String tension is the same along the whole string, for a given string at a given length and a given pitch. It can feel different if the 'afterlength' on either side of the break points is different, though; unless you're locking the string at both bridge and nut, you've got more string on either side of those break points that moves when you bend it, so you're working with a longer string, which feels 'looser' because you only bend a smaller percentage of the entire length when you bend. The tension, however, is actually exactly the same. The feel can be different, though.

[George Brown]

back to the point of the trem-setter, you say bends feel effortless this is probably due to the bridge you currently have. a full floating bridge (floyd or not) will usualy sag ie move towards the nut like when you push down on the wammy bar. however as the bridge is moving it means your supper smooth bends will take a while to reach the pitch you are trying to bend to. so yes bends may be harder but they will reach the desired pitch quicker so you dont have to bend as much. im sure its something you could get used to plus the tremsetter reqires very little modification and is completly reversable.

one final note when installing the tremsetter you may have to trinker with it for a while to make sure the spring that keeps your bridge returning to the "zero angle" is set up correctly

[oz tradie]

So this theory about stop bar height not interfering intonation, I'm guessing, (no, I'm asking )

would also apply to neck-thru string ferrule placement ?

ie. the string ferrules can be staggered or parrallel to the TOM bridge

and that will only affect string 'feel', not intonation ?

[GregP]

That's correct. Put your ferrules wherever you want them, as long as they ultimately make positive contact with the bridge saddles. The "end" point of the audible string length is at the bridge, not at the point it's anchored. Ever see a Babicz acoustic?

[Firefox2551]

Is that what those wierd radiating thingies are?

I always though they were for show or something.....

Thats quite interesting....

[GregP]

Heh, well in my opinion they ARE there for show. That's the point-- they're way the heck all over the place, but they don't change the intonation of the guitar. Without seeing one in action, I won't debate about whether the SOUND is actually affected, but for sure the intonation is not.