ChaosInc. Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 a friend of mine asked me to do over his old Ibanez raodstar, he said he got it used back in 84. He said i could do prettymuch what ever i wanted to do with it, cause its in pretty rough shape, lol. What i was wondering is if i could fill in the areas under where the pickguard is(or was he doesnt have it anymore, all thats left is the neck and body) with fiberglass resin, just pour the stuff in and let it cure for about a week then start sanding and re route the electronics cavity in the back.. will the resin get a good bite on the wood if i clean all the paint out? will it shrink and cause problems with the finish later on? Thanks all. As soon as i get some batteries for my cam ill post some pics of how rough it is, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 i think it would be better if you cut wood to size and glued the wood into the cavities. if you rout into the fiberglass from the back the dust will go everywhere, its not good to breath in or apparently touch your skin for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox2551 Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 (edited) I'm with nightfly, fibreglass belongs in lamborghini diablo replicars...... Try to cut a few blocks to the right shape and glue those suckers in there. I assume you are going with a paint finish correct? Make sure you make a template to show your self where the pickups originally go and so everything stays in line. If its in real bad shape just strip all the paint off it and sand it all down good. Try to take out as many little dings as possible and if you are going with solid colour paint, you can fill them with a wood filler and sand over that to make sure you have a nice even surface. Edited June 7, 2006 by Firefox2551 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosInc. Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Darn i was kinda wihing there was an easier way to do it, lol. the cavity is a pretty crazy shapecutting some wood to fit in there would be a royal pain in the butt. Is there any other liquids that i could pour in that might be a little less toxic but still hold its shape and stay durable over time. Its gonna have a solid color on it, and im gonna have to strip it down to bare wood. Anyway thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 why not put a figured drop top stright over the pup routes, rear route it and do a burst finish or similar?? cheers darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosInc. Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 OMG, lol i never even thought of just laying something over it completely. Can u get "drop tops" on ebay, or what exactly would i be looking for? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 chaos i'm far from any sort of expert (having never done this) but i would assume you would need to route the top of the body down by the thickness of the top you intend to put on it and then glue that sucker down. obviously some of the more experienced guys could give you a better description of the process. cheers darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 why not put a figured drop top stright over the pup routes, rear route it and do a burst finish or similar?? cheers darren +1 That's the best option IMO. My concern with using filler would be the obvious problems with shrinkage. Though I have heard that alot of people have had success with using marine epoxy. I've never tried it, so I can't confirm that. The problem I see with using wood blocks to fill the cavities is that it is wood's nature to expand and contract. Even if you use the same exact type of wood as the body to fill these cavities, chances are they will expand and contract at different rates. Besides ... you will still have to fill the seams with something, right? JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosInc. Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) Ideas are welcome from anyone no matter how much experience they have, thanks a mil. Here is a pic of the body http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1176/dscf01076cq.jpg Edited June 8, 2006 by ChaosInc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosInc. Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Thanks guys, im gonna talk to the guy who owns it and see what he says, i like the idea of adding the top to it, lol, but im lazy too so im lookin into the marine epoxy too. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 i'm far from any sort of expert (having never done this) but i would assume you would need to route the top of the body down by the thickness of the top you intend to put on it and then glue that sucker down. I'd probably look into a thin veneer, and then use a neck shim to compensate as opposed to trying to route the top down. Then I would maybe build up the thickness where the cavity is from the inside of the cavity to help reinforce the controls deck. Sounds like a cool project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosInc. Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ok came up with another idea, i showed the guy who owns it some guitars that i did in photoshop with some graphics on em and i think the drop top would be a good idea but i also think it might be a little difficult going with plaining the top and the vener sounds good but i dont like the idea of shiming the neck to match up with the bridge hight. So i thought about just making a pickguard out of lexan or similar material and recessing it into the body, making it look like it doesnt have a pickguard, possibly hiding the lines within the graphic. I think the cavity is deep enough to do this if not it wouldnt take much to chew a little more out. Not real fancy but it will get the job done. he wants to go with the hardtail again, but im tryin to convince him to go with a sring through and a tom, would give alot more room for the graphic design. He's a big Iron Maiden freak so think im gonna do a trooper or Number of the beast graphic on it, im gonna show him both of em in photoshop mockups(hardtail and TOM). Hes going with EMG's too, wants either an 81 or 85 in the bridge and then sa's for singles, He wants to have or be able to have a real bluesy sound. Hopefully i wont mess it up too bad, lol. ill post some pics in the right section when i get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova9 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ok came up with another idea, i showed the guy who owns it some guitars that i did in photoshop with some graphics on em and i think the drop top would be a good idea but i also think it might be a little difficult going with plaining the top and the vener sounds good but i dont like the idea of shiming the neck to match up with the bridge hight. So i thought about just making a pickguard out of lexan or similar material and recessing it into the body, making it look like it doesnt have a pickguard, possibly hiding the lines within the graphic. I think the cavity is deep enough to do this if not it wouldnt take much to chew a little more out. Not real fancy but it will get the job done. he wants to go with the hardtail again, but im tryin to convince him to go with a sring through and a tom, would give alot more room for the graphic design. He's a big Iron Maiden freak so think im gonna do a trooper or Number of the beast graphic on it, im gonna show him both of em in photoshop mockups(hardtail and TOM). Hes going with EMG's too, wants either an 81 or 85 in the bridge and then sa's for singles, He wants to have or be able to have a real bluesy sound. Hopefully i wont mess it up too bad, lol. ill post some pics in the right section when i get started. Don't use marine epoxy to fill gaps that big. A thin veneer wouldn't be thick enough to support anything on the face of the guitar either. If you can't cut wood to the right shapes to fit those cavities, then rout the cavities to regular shapes (e.g. rectangles), and then fill those shapes with rectangles of wood. If you want to add a drop-top (1/4" or so), then build the router-thicknessing jig that you can find on here, use that to take 1/4" off the top of the guitar, then you have a flat surface to attach the top to, and essentially once you've cut it to shape, the guitar will be the same in terms of bridge height etc. Don't want to pour water all over your fire, but are you sure you want to do this to your friend's guitar? Hope he's a good friend, and won't make you pony up for a new guitar if you trash this one completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) Don't use marine epoxy to fill gaps that big. A thin veneer wouldn't be thick enough to support anything on the face of the guitar either. I know this is no longer an option for the ChaosInc., but just for my own knowledge, why would you recommend wood blocks over marine epoxy? No matter how you cut the blocks, there will always be a gap or seem to fill. And even if you did a great job filling the seems, in time, it would inevitably be noticable because you would now have THREE components that are subject to expanding and contracting ... the body, the wood blocks, and the filler. With marine epoxy, you can route the edges of the cavities and feather the epoxy so it would be virtually impossible to detect any seems. Here's a pic to help explain ... As for the veneer ... As I tried to explain, you could change the thickness of the veneer from the inside of the cavity to help support any controls you may have IF NECESSARY. I'm just curious ... what exactly were you thinking of supporting here? Actually, I'm thinking the veneer wouldn't have to be any thicker then the pickgaurd you are replacing. And isn't the pickgaurd what held all of the controls in the first place? BTW ChaosInc. ... I only mentioned the possibility of a neck shim not knowing what type of bridge was on the guitar. There's a good possibility it wouldn't even be required. Hard to say without seeing what you have to work with. Edited June 9, 2006 by Dino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) *sigh* All this talk of bondo and marine epoxy is just nuts. Any material you use besides wood is going to expand and contract and eventually crack itself or the body. Simplest way to do what you want is just plane a 1/4 inch off the top of the guitar and cap it with a 1/4 inch veneer. Cut off the veneer where it would overlap the top contour and blend it into the existing contour--you don't need to drop the top over the contour unless you're doing a transparent finish. Route your new pickup holes in the new top and route the control cavity in the back. Presto, you're done. Edited June 9, 2006 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova9 Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 No matter how you cut the blocks, there will always be a gap or seem to fill. And even if you did a great job filling the seems, in time, it would inevitably be noticable because you would now have THREE components that are subject to expanding and contracting ... the body, the wood blocks, and the filler. Well, if you rout the current holes into regular shapes, you should be able to get a damn tight fit if you're careful enough. With marine epoxy, you can route the edges of the cavities and feather the epoxy so it would be virtually impossible to detect any seems. Here's a pic to help explain ... As for the veneer ... As I tried to explain, you could change the thickness of the veneer from the inside of the cavity to help support any controls you may have IF NECESSARY. I'm just curious ... what exactly were you thinking of supporting here? Actually, I'm thinking the veneer wouldn't have to be any thicker then the pickgaurd you are replacing. And isn't the pickgaurd what held all of the controls in the first place? BTW ChaosInc. ... I only mentioned the possibility of a neck shim not knowing what type of bridge was on the guitar. There's a good possibility it wouldn't even be required. Hard to say without seeing what you have to work with. It's just a much cleaner (and imo more professional) job if you do what crafty says, rather than just plugging holes with epoxy, or putting on thin veneers that you then need to cut reinforcement pieces for (and if he is too lazy to bother cutting wood to fit the holes, what's to say he'll be any different with those reinforcement pieces he'll need?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) All this talk about filling huge cavities with wood blocks, epoxy and what not is crazy. A new top would be a good alternative but will all of the effort involved, you might as well just start a new body. It will be quicker and better in the long run. If that guitar were mine, I would leave the routes alone, re-paint, make a really nice pearloid pickguard for it and upgrade the bridge (Floyd or wilkinson). The biggest change I would potentially do is a two humbucker route - think Dave Murray of Iron Maiden. Edited June 9, 2006 by guitar2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) Any material you use besides wood is going to expand and contract and eventually crack itself or the body. Personally, I wouldn't put THAT much work into an RG. I have no doubt that either method would work just fine and look just as "professional", providing it were done by someone competent. The only thing I question is the long term effects of each method. But if the composition of wood has changed over the years and no longer expands or contracts, then that would obviously be the better option. Edited June 9, 2006 by Dino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosInc. Posted June 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Ok i like all the debating on the epoxy, tops and blocks, i still havent decided on what to do with it, waiting for all the hardware and stuff to come in so i can do the work and fit and fine tune the stuff while i go. I said i was lazy as a joke, i actualy like to make things look the best they can with the tools that i have. As far as him being a "good friend" hell ya, and i could tell some stories to prove it. He knows i like to take my time with things and says i have way too much patience. I know this is a far cry from building guitars but i put alot of time and work into model cars, sometimes taking weeks to do one. Anyway i like the drop top idea, but i dont have the tools to do it properly, the venere also sounds like a good idea and reinforcing the controle are wouldnt be a big problem its only gonna house the vol/tone and switch, im gonna move the jack to the lower left so it will have lots of wood for support, but im doing this for nothing, except the experience, in my spare time. Now that being said i know now what i want to do. Im gonna route the area of the controle cavity strait through to the back, route out where the pickguard would normally be down 1/4in , use a 1/4 pice of top to fit the area, route the pickup holes back in and start to get it ready for paint. Does that sound like a decent idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I think you'll get a lot better results by just planing a 1/4 inch off the whole top and glueing up a 1/4 inch veneer. It'll come out a lot more seamless and you can use your router to follow the edge of the body to shape the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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