MidnightLamp Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Hey All, I've built a couple of guitars, but usually using custom made necks, and I just can't seem to get the scarf joint to cut right, or look good. It's the actual cut that's the main problem. I was wondering if someone would cut (for a price) the scarf joints for me on a couple of necks blanks? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Do you have a belt sander? If so, scarf joints are super easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightLamp Posted October 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I've got a belt sander, what do I do? I guess I've never heard of that method yet! So far (for those curious) I've tried (to crappy avail): -Hand saw (coping and lumber saw (you know the ripcut saw you use to cut 2x4's?)) -Badly done bandsaw cuts, as the only machine big enough to handle that kind of load that I have access to is way to old and poorly maintained to the point where it just doesn't do it. -Tried a table saw jig, but somehow all the jigs are slightly angled, causing the cut to go stray. (all done on local wood shop grade C pine...$2 per 10', so plenty of practice material cheap) I'm at the point where I'm willing to try...but I'd like to finish one good guitar at least, so I'm looking to buy the scarfed blank for this one while I practice some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I've done it the belt sander way, and that is NOT the way to go!!! Cut a rough scarf with whatever way you've got, be it a bandsaw, handsaw, whatever. Then, take a router and a straight piece of wood and make a jig the following way: 1- take a 3/4" MDF base and using a 3/4" diameter template bit (following the straight piece of wood) make two parallel dados/channels about 3/8" deep. 2- using the same straight wood and template bit, draw out a right triangle with a 13 degree in it. Once again use the template bit and straight wood to cut out this perfect triangle, then use that triangle and the template bit to copy a second exact triangle. 3- with much force (it'll be a tight fit), slide these two 13 degree right triangles into the dados in the base MDF piece (since it's 3/4" MDF and a 3/4" channel, it'll fit quite snugly) 4- create a widened base of some sort for your router to ride the rails of these triangles. 5- tape/clamp/whatever you rought cut joints onto the base between the matching triangles, set your router depth to a depth that'll take off the roughness and leave you a perfectly flat 13 degree cut in both your scarfs. Then glue them up I know this sounds a little complicated here, but trust me the jig takes 10 minutes to make, you can do it with ANY angle you wish, it makes PERFECT scarfs, and it's just a dream I tell you, a dream to work with. Hopefully someone can provide a picture... I know a bunch of ya'll use them, and I know I've seen pics out there before. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Alternatively, a sharp plane and 2 minutes of planing/checking with a ruler/planing/checking/planing/checking and you'll have a perfect scarf joint, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightLamp Posted October 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I'll try a bit of both, as the sharpening setup I have (hand + old arkansas) usually gives me a blade that'll cut fine cuts perfectly but have trouble with the deeper cuts (it's the angle at which the blade was originally ground that's the problem...plane was second hand). I'll just rough the joint with the router and finish it with a few strokes of the plane. I'm in the process of trying chris's method, and I'm just building the jig. I'll post the guitar as soon as it's done. Thanks for all the help guys! mods, [/thread] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I used the belt sander method and it worked perfectly. *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prs man Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I have done the belt saner thing with no trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Alex Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Could some kind soul please explain to me how you get a tight joint with a belt sander. I've thought hard about this, and a belt sander is the last tool I would consider for tight joinery(a claw hammer is higher up the list I've got in my head). And no offence intended to primal and prs man, but it sounds like you wouldn't know a tight joint if it bit you in the ass. I just can't comprehend how you could keep the joint flat with nice square edges. I don't own a belt sander to make a scarf joint with, but from experience using one(hand held, and pedestal mounted), it just doesn't make any sense. So if someone could explain it to me, maybe with pictures too, especially of the final joint, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 First, rough cut the scarf joint on a bandsaw. Then, clamp it together, as if you were going to use the planer method. Only, instead of planing it, take it to the belt sander. I probably should have made myself more clear, however. The actual belt sander was used to do most of the work. My belt sander also has a disc sander attached to it, which is how I made certain that the joint was square. Patience, of course, is a must. This is the best picture I have of the scarf joint at the moment. You can see the joint near the edge of the image: Here is a picture of the scarf joint after sanding: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/insignia100/scarf.jpg It has been 3 years now, and the joint is still solid as a rock, and still nearly invisible. It may not be the best way to do it, but considering the tools I have (or don't have) at my disposal, it turned out damn fine. I'll be using the same method on my next bass. EDIT: Found another picture of the neck. The joint is near the top. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/ins...shing/neck3.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightLamp Posted October 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Damn! I know I'm not that good at guitar building, but I still can't even SEE the joint in that picture, it's that good. My belt sander sucks completely and totally, and it doesn't have enough width to do the kinds of necks I'm doing right now (solid one piece maple, with jackson style headstock) without laminating a couple pieces. I just built the router sled tonight, and it's looking like it's the way to go for me. Nice to know there's another method too...beats cutting by hand for those of us who have little to no measure of a straight cut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Damn! I know I'm not that good at guitar building, but I still can't even SEE the joint in that picture, it's that good. My belt sander sucks completely and totally, and it doesn't have enough width to do the kinds of necks I'm doing right now (solid one piece maple, with jackson style headstock) without laminating a couple pieces. I just built the router sled tonight, and it's looking like it's the way to go for me. Nice to know there's another method too...beats cutting by hand for those of us who have little to no measure of a straight cut! That was my first build, btw. I even did the majority of the shaping of the neck on the belt sander, too (much like the way Gibson does it, if you have ever seen any of their factory videos). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 The joint's at the far left side of the pic, correct? Still, a very good match. It helps that you cut it from the same board, definitely. I need to give that belt sander as a means of shaping the neck. I've been using rasps, full-round files, and spokeshaves until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 The joint's at the far left side of the pic, correct? Still, a very good match. It helps that you cut it from the same board, definitely. I need to give that belt sander as a means of shaping the neck. I've been using rasps, full-round files, and spokeshaves until now. Yea, belt sanders are great for rough shaping the neck. I removed the vast majority of the material in about 3-5 minutes with the belt sander. Then I followed up with rasps and sandpaper to get the final shape. To get back on topic, the only reason the joint is visible is grain variation in the walnut, and slight color variation in the maple. Still, it worked like a charm for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightLamp Posted October 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Ahh, now I see the joint...may I (noobishly enough) ask why it's so far back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Ahh, now I see the joint...may I (noobishly enough) ask why it's so far back? The placement is dependent on the size of the neck blank. Since this was for a neck through bass, the neck blank was about 2" thick. The thicker the blank, the further back the joint. If I had been using a 1" thick blank, the joint would have been much closer to the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) EDIT: beat me to to the explanation, primal Primal's joint would probably be stronger if the joint where right at the point where the angled headstock begins, but I'd be surprised if primal ever had any trouble with that neck considering it's laminated from some typically durable woods. I put my scarf joints a bit after the angle of the headstock begins. This is so I can hide the joint with a headcap and backstrapping. It's not that the joints are poorly done, I'd just rather you don't see them at all as opposed to being barely able to see them. Note that my method(or location, rather) of scarfing is no more stable than primal's compared to a joint that's directly under the nut. Again, not to say that the joint's neccessarily unstable. Well...I'm just ranting now. My appologies. peace, russ Edited October 6, 2006 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 As a side note, take a look at Warmoth Gecko Bass necks (such as this one: http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_...subMenuItem2=0). Although their scarf joint is closer to the nut, its still not right under it, so its no more stable than mine either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 I think I missed the point of your post, primal. I wasn't questioning your neck's stability, merely pointing out the structural reason some people do it and how to maximize those effects. I use it more for economical reasons than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Oh, no worries thegarehanman, I was just posting that Warmoth neck because I think its neat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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