Ruining A Completely Decent Body & Pickguards

[Vade]

So I've been studying links online for DAYS now and decided that if I were SMART, I'd join PG and get to know people... pick a few brains. y'know. "Stuff."

First off:

I'm Vade.

It's like "Darth Vader" minus the "R"... and the "Darth."

So... yeah. "Hey."

So here's a PAIR of questions.

"That's right folks... not one, but TWO questions! And if you act now, I'll throw in the "n00b followup barrage" absolutely free of charge!"

(PA residents add 6% sales tax)

Question the 1st:

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I HAVE to ask... why does anyone pay for a custom pickguard? On a recent blog I was reading (which was pretty good, btw) the highest cost of the whole reworked project was 80 bucks for a pickguard. Couldn't we just cut any shape we wanted out of any material we wanted with a jigsaw? I mean, plastic, aluminum, steel, wood, celluloid... you name it! I always thought this would be the cheapest part of guitar modding but I've seen a LOT of people sock out some serious buckage for these! Is it just that most people find it's worth it to not have to cut the shape and drill the holes?

Question the second (of the 1st part)

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I began my serious forum-hunting on an Ibanez group cause I'm looking to customize a low-end RG from 2001. When I didn't find what I was looking for there, (and realizing I might very well be flamed off the face of the internet for my plans by the Ibby fans) I hunted and picked via Google but STILL didn't find exactly what I was looking for so here we go:

I am HOPING to re-carve the very flat body of the RG to add dimension and character. I was hoping for an archtop effect with additional reductions at the lowest spots of the horns. In my spare time in highschool woodshop, I whipped out a solid walnut guitar body with the usual cutaways on the belly and arm. Though time-consuming, I wouldn't consider it "difficult" and would like to play with the shape of the RG to make it less flat (read: less RG-ish.)

Please don't misunderstand me. I LOVE Ibanez's but for my own personal gweeter, I like the look of a sculpted body. But with all the various "Mods" I've found (routing for new pickups, filling old pickup routes, cutting a Jem monkey grip, installing an FR floating trem, reversing FROM a trem to a hardtail, applying flame veneer tops, repaints, material finishes...) I haven't seen anyone modding a flat top electric to a re-carved body, archtop or otherwise. Are these things floating around online or on the forum and I'm just missing them? Is this a cardinal sin even on a $50 RG270DX? Am I going to hell for wanting to do this?

Okay, I know... there were a number of questions sub categorized underneath Question #2 but obviously a number of them aren't really serious. But I KNOW I can't be the first person who wants to carve up a perfectly decent guitar body to make a far more individual instrument. Who has done this? I would like to see other people's work to know what to be careful of and what to keep in mind before I go hitting the routing table and various sanders!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, ideas, criticisms of my mental state and patience with my over-use of smilies.

~~Vade

[Mickguard]

Oh great, a noob with personality. Just what we need around here.

Anyway, people shell out the big bucks for custom pickguards because they don't want to do the work themselves.

But you're right, you can make your own pickguards, and you can make them out of anything you want. With a little care and effort, anything's possible. It really helps to have the right tools (a router with a template bit and a bevel bit, for example), though, and for a one-off guard, it doesn't make much sense to invest in those. But you can cut a guard with only an exacto knife, if you're careful enough.

For your carve idea...hey, it's your guitar, do what you want with it. But since you've already built one guitar, why not just make a new body for the guitar--carved the way you want--and transfer all the hardware to it? That way you can keep the existing body, or sell it, or whatever.

Anyway, about carving the existing body--is there enough wood on there to get a decent arch going? If so, sure, it'll work. Carving's the most fun part of building a guitar.

[biliousfrog]

hey Vade,

yeah making a scratch plate is quite easy with some care, a jigsaw won't be great for regular plate material but could be used for some stuff....A router or Dremel is usually better as Mickguard said. I guess that some people pay a lot for custom plates with graphics on?....I can't say that I'm a fan of American Eagle strat pickguards but if that's what you want then it might be easier to just buy one....& not everyone has access to tools or has experience of cutting diamond plate so that could be a factor too if you want a "METAL!!!" guard.

[Vade]

Oh great, a noob with personality. Just what we need around here.

Heh... thanks, Mickguard! I do what I can.

I popped back, just in case but I didn't really expect that anyone would have replied this quickly. I'm very glad to be proven wrong! Thanks much for the breakneck speed of your answer!

I HAD considered that, actually... cutting a new body blank or using the one from high school that I never got to finish but for some reason I'm really jazzed on this modding concept. Go fig, right? I think it has lots to do with the fact that I'm not all that crazy about the sharkfin fret inlays. Don't get me wrong, they're allright but if I were designing a guitbox from the ground up, I'd either go with something truly unique (perhaps lucky charms or a steaming pile of... er. Nevermind) or nothing at all when it comes to fret inlays. So cutting a new body would force me to make a new neck or at least a new fretboard and you know what? I'm just way too much of a slackarse to finish that job. Wrecking a finished body is one thing... starting at the beginning is a whole new ball o' earwax.

Being that this is the case, I don't want to set up a whole new bod from scratch considering that the RG270 is getting really close to the bottom of the Ibanez Barrel (or at least the bottom region of the "Liscensed F.R. Trem-equipped" Ibby Barrel) and therefore not worth much in the aftermarket I'd warrant. Moreover, I won't need to line up routes for three pickups, two pots and a selector switch PLUS a floyd rose or measure all sorts of stuff. ::shudders:: Ick. Measuring involves math and math tends to turn me into "Sloth" from the Goonies.

I've always been "the art guy" amongst my friends. Others figure out the specifics required to make something work and then they call me in to make it LOOK good. Sometimes I'm in on the design and they build to suit my ideas... other times they give me a big sheet of plywood and say "Make that look like a dramatic medieval gate." Ummmmm.... O-kayyyy.

I'm an artist, not a technician. I suppose that, with a complete list of all the measurements I would need, jigs galore and all the tools and equipment I guess I could probably... ah, who the hell am I kidding? I'd look at the pile of goodies and opt to play my Gretch instead. <lol>

But when you think about it, a recarve mod SHOULD be really simple. Take your subtractive tools of choice and start hacking. When the shape is about what you want... start sanding. Then stain or paint, re-assemble and booyah. Done.

The only thing that I'm planning on doing beyond creative alteration is to shield the pickups but that's not hard either. I'm just worried that I won't be able to resist the urge to hide additional creative flair beneath the pickups and other guts in the form of celtic interlace cut out of aluminum sheet adhered to the copper shielding. Sometimes I take things way too far.

[Vade]

hey Vade,

yeah making a scratch plate is quite easy with some care, a jigsaw won't be great for regular plate material but could be used for some stuff....A router or Dremel is usually better as Mickguard said. ...& not everyone has access to tools or has experience of cutting diamond plate so that could be a factor too if you want a "METAL!!!" guard.

Hmmmm.

Good point, Bilious. I'm not yet sure what I want exactly, if anything, as the guitar as purchased has no guard at all. Haven't made up my mind at the moment what to use or what color but whether I make one or not, the question has been itching at the back of my head for DAYS now! I had ta' axe, y'know?

Still no links to heavy bodymods I see... I'll keep my fingers crossed of course. I'm thinking that I'll have to bear in mind the neck join and pre-exisiting routing, but that aside I'm not seeing anything to look out for. Just how much does reducing the amount of material affect the sound?

[Mickguard]

I'm coming from the 'art' side --as opposed to the technician side-- too. It's taken a huge effort to learn the patience and learn how to manipulate the tools, but that's been part of the fun too.

I started with a body mod, including pickguard mod --do a search in the projects section for the 'Bocaster', you'll see what I mean....

But sure, all you need is a surform and a strong forearm. The people here will be able to answer pretty much all of your technical questions.

I'd recommend drawing lines along the sides of the body to give you an idea of where you'll be carving too. After that, it's a matter of feeling...

Using a router isn't all that artistic...that's why I really like the parts where you're carving, sanding, really working on the wood itself. Sculpture, in other words.

[Desopolis]

what I recomend is drawing a "safe" line onto the body. usually arround the bridge and pickup routes. then again on the sides of the guitar

then id rough up the paint(asuming your using a solid color) and attack it with a surform and a microplane(a long surform)

start with the rounded off edges at whatever angle you want the carve to be..

the rest should be self explainitory

as far as art/tech goes..

once you start modding, you will start wanting to do inlays, and re-wiring, and bridge mods, and everything else..

eventually you'll end up with a fret scale, a 150 fret cutting setup, $500 in random luthier tools and be like..

***?

[Vade]

once you start modding, you will start wanting to do inlays, and re-wiring, and bridge mods, and everything else..

eventually you'll end up with a fret scale, a 150 fret cutting setup, $500 in random luthier tools and be like..

***?

*Sigh*

You read my mind, Des.

I'm a little afraid of just that, but at the same time I kinda like the idea. I have found it very hard NOT to think about guitar modding since I got this thing and did the required adjustments/part replacements to make it a playable instrument. I thought to myself, "SELF... that is step one of becoming a semi-competant guitar tech!" At which point, self said something about wasting my time on creative and technical endevours when we could have been looking up internet porn but... ya gotta make a few sacrifices, I guess.

I've been digging deep into the old forum posts and hauling out links to others who have reshaped exsisting instruments, though nothing quite like what I have in mind. All the same, it IS inspirational!

As a side note... (prepare for n00b follow-up barrage question #A)

I'm considering scalloping the highest frets (4-6 of them) as I've seen on a number of necks here at PG. Do Sharktooth inlays typically go far enough into the material to allow for that simple mod or am I likely to file away the centers on the lowest 2 or 3 teeth?

[Desopolis]

most perl is not deep enough to take a scallop.. unless it has that clear plastic over the top to give 3D depth.. but I doubt thats the case.

just start doing the things you want.. start with this refinish, then make your own body with a pre-made neck,

then move to making your own neck..

trust me, I was only half way through my first body when I had realized all my mistakes and decided to make another one at the same time...

[Maiden69]

As a side note... (prepare for n00b follow-up barrage question #A)

I'm considering scalloping the highest frets (4-6 of them) as I've seen on a number of necks here at PG. Do Sharktooth inlays typically go far enough into the material to allow for that simple mod or am I likely to file away the centers on the lowest 2 or 3 teeth?

This is very hard to tell. I did a Jackson copy neck and they were fine, as well as my Epiphone Les Paul trapz. The secret is not too go to deep. You don't need to scallop even close to 1/8" I think that mines are a little more than 1/16"

[Vade]

This is very hard to tell. I did a Jackson copy neck and they were fine, as well as my Epiphone Les Paul trapz. The secret is not too go to deep. You don't need to scallop even close to 1/8" I think that mines are a little more than 1/16"

Wow... a reply from EDDIE himself!

Thanks, Maiden. That was actually an UBER-useful tip. I had figured on going a lot deeper than that, but now that I think of it... I have no idea WHY I was figuring on that.

So I picked up my 2nd copy of the "Guitar Player Repair Guide" today. Been hunting for it for nearly 2 weeks and finally snagged a copy at what was like the 15th book store I hit. I'd bought this book when it was first released but it has gone missing. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen it since college and considering how many other musicians I was running with, the most likely thing is that I lent it and forgot it with someone else. It was a REALLY tough call though, let me tell you. There were a number of quality luthier books that would have covered a lot of things I'm sure I won't find in a repair guide but this particular tome always was a great help to me and I've been hurting without it. Nos I have an excuse to pick up the other books later.

Well, lots of pots on the fire tonight. I've got a number of commissioned illustrations that are demanding my attention. I hope I have the willpower to leave the Repair Guide in the bag and do the work I'm SUPPOSED to be doing!

TWO MINUTES LATER...

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::picks up Guitar Player Repair Guide and starts flipping::

...dammit. *sigh*

Edited October 25, 2006 by Vade

[cknowles]

Pick/scratch guards are easy even with simple tools.

here's mine for my LP copy.

I made my own plywood out of curly maple with mahogany core.

If you're going to do this it always helps to make several so that you can become one with the experience.

You can spend several hours sanding and carving to shape it right, then more time on it making the bevel perfect. Then put a really smooth coat of nitro on it let it sit over night then the next day set it on the

guitar to see how it looks, then realize the bevel is slanted the wrong way!

I did this. So if anyone wants a really nice "LEFTY" LP scratch guard......

[ToneMonkey]

I bet vade has a router within a month

I'll also bet that within 2 months he'll be spending alot of spare beer tokens on sandpaper.

Good luck mate, welcome to the forums.

Kaj

[The royal consort]

Hello vade...

as a quick and (relatively) easy answer you could try Setch's 'insti-carve' machine...

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=16098

I'm running one up at the moment....

Looks like a great idea...

[Prostheta]

Welcome to PG, Vade.

Man, you talk like me. That's not good because it means I might have to kill you, Highlander style or something.

Seriously though. Be careful of people doing the Jedi router trick on you around here.

SELL YOUR SOUL FOR A ROUTER TODAY AND YOU'LL RECEIVE THIS ATTRACTIVE SKY-DIVING MONKEY

Edited October 25, 2006 by Prostheta

[Vade]

Wow, Knowles! That look a rilly nass! (dat's a "really nice" if'n ya didn't git dat.) Come to THINK of it... I have an unfinished oak pickguard for a J-P Bass that should be hangin' round here somewhere. Not like I have the slightest inkling what to DO with the damn thing. I sold the Fender I was making it for a long time ago and now that I've played Ibanez, Alembic, Spectre, Warwick and Ken Smith basses I'll never even pick up another Fender "chopping block" style. <just my opinion and fitting for my particular style. I know a Mr Sheehan and a Mr. Pastorius that would definitely disagree with me and I'm not about to argue with THEM so... chalk it up to personal preferences.>

I'm gonna dash off and find topics on the best way to remove paint from inside routed cavities... I'm guessing a heatgun but am not certain and THAT'S why I'ma gonna look for it!

But before I do that, allow me to acknowledge Prostheta, ToneMonkey and The Royal Consort who, along with the first "respondier's" to my initial post here have made me feel welcome here and put a smile on my face and filled my heart with blood.

And here's your official acknowledgment:

"You guys do not suck... like, at all."

And as a follow-up... PROSTHETA! You're from LINCOLN?!?!?!? I just moved back to the states from Blankney Fen, just down the road! What a small frikkin' world, eh? I used to hit up Lincoln at least 3 times a week!

Heh heh... "The Glory Hole."

[Prostheta]

Hahaha...indeed, Glory Hole!!

I'm not actually *from* Lincoln but I moved here from Hull about six years back. If you ever went to Fox's Music, you might remember the Finnish assistant manageress. I kind of married her :-D

[Southpa]

I've made pickguards, cover plates and truss rod covers out of 16 ga. stainless. Cut with a jigsaw and then rough / fine file , then sanding 120 to 2000, then polish up to (or down to) 1/4 micron diamond metal polish (I can see myself!) Its a lot of effort and only one of my guitars sports polished stainless pickguard and cover plate. But I have some spares laying around.

I've also used 1-side scratch resistant "Acrulyte" plexi (1/8 " thickness) for pickguards and pickup rings. I've had my best results with a jeweler's saw at making those things. Just don't forget which side is which. You can do a lot of cool stuff with clear plastic like paint the backside or add a pattern underlay. I found some pearlescent wrapping paper that worked well for one guitar's pickup ring.

As far as carving goes, its your guitar, go ahead and have at 'er. I've done some different things myself, no heavy carving but things like putting an Ibanez Roadstar neck on a Hagstrom III. Had to move the bridge. But the "hag" is back to normal now.

And you never know how thick fretboard inlays are until its too late. Make sure you have a plan "B" in mind, just in case.

Edited October 26, 2006 by Southpa

[Vade]

PROSTHETA

I gotta tell ya, I did my best to avoid going into Fox's too often, or the one whose name I can never remember. I just called it "Ugly-Pink-Music-Store-across-from-the-Bus-Station." Since you married one of Fox's managerial staff, I'm sorta ashamed to admit that when I went to Lincoln to GO to an instrument monger, it was usually "Pink & Ugly" but nevermind. Me in a music shop is a dangerous thing, especially when I've been in the market for an acoustic bass and a good acoustic 12-string for several years. So I try my best to fight the temptation which will only lead to A ) disappointment or B ) financial ruin.

And you never know how thick fretboard inlays are until its too late. Make sure you have a plan "B" in mind, just in case.

Hmmm... well as of now "plan A" is "scalloping frets resulting in an awesome dig area at the high register and having it look sweeter than an 18-year old virgin dusted with powdered sugar." Sadly my "plan B" is currently something along the lines of "having three ugly, scored-out sharkfin/tooth inlays that play well but have the visual appeal of a plumber's ass cleavage." The only other thing I can think of is to go over the scalloped areas with a very dark stain that will adhere even to the filed finish of the ruined inlays, masking my little flub.

I don't suppose you have a better recommendation that doesn't include the purchase/install of a new fret board or neck?

Edited October 26, 2006 by Vade

[Southpa]

I don't suppose you have a better recommendation that doesn't include the purchase/install of a new fret board or neck?

Carefully remove the inlays beforehand, scallop the frets and then reinstall the inlays. Then sand them down to match the profile of the scallop. Thats about all I can think of outside of fb replacement, that is, IF the inlays are too thin for your scalloping job.

[Prostheta]

PROSTHETA

I gotta tell ya, I did my best to avoid going into Fox's too often, or the one whose name I can never remember. I just called it "Ugly-Pink-Music-Store-across-from-the-Bus-Station." Since you married one of Fox's managerial staff, I'm sorta ashamed to admit that when I went to Lincoln to GO to an instrument monger, it was usually "Pink & Ugly" but nevermind. Me in a music shop is a dangerous thing, especially when I've been in the market for an acoustic bass and a good acoustic 12-string for several years. So I try my best to fight the temptation which will only lead to A ) disappointment or B ) financial ruin.

I don't blame you - Fox's is very expensive and William's Music Group who now own Fox's also keep Music Makers (pink thing) in stock with instruments. Kind of sewn up the Lincoln market really. Mark Smalec who works at MM is a greasy tossball, but Aidan Marshall is awesome and a good friend of ours. Small world, as you said.