MP63 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 What's the verdict on wiping down/cleaning fingerboards before gluing? I read where it was recommended that no wood prep is needed for indian rosewood fingerboards. The suggestion came from a fello on the MIMF forum. Years ago, the factory I worked at, did no prep to the rosewood fingerboards before gluing. Sanded them and used Titebond...on everything. For years I've been told to wipe the rosewood down with acetone prior to gluing to remove the resisns that will make gluing difficult. OK, which one is it? Does wiping down fingerboards actually do any harm? Thanks for the help. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 The one time I've used rosewood I didn't wipe it down. Just titebonded it on there and it seems to be doin' just dandy. Plus, you're asking if it does HARM. Why would you EVER do an EXTRA step if it had the potencial for harm? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 The wiping down relates to more oily Rosewoods like Cocobolo. Popular opinion is that it is not needed(you are most likely not going to remove enough oil to really help penetration). I don't believe you are going to hurt anything by wiping with naptha(as long as you allow it to dry well). It is more difficult to press glue into higher density woods or oily and or resonous woods. You should try to prepair the surfaces very well, and try to maintain higher glueing pressure. This is pretty normal though with most fretboard woods. P.S. Chris- You were gluing EIR? If so it is not really one of the oily woods that wiping would be a consideration. However You have some Pink Ivory that may just be a wood that could be a candidate. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 No cleanign with solvents is necessary, and yes, there is some evidence that wiping can negatively effect the glue bond. You should ensure that you have a freshly worked glue surface on both the neck and the FB, since glue sticks best to fresh, unoxidised surface. The best way to ensure this is to go over each piece with a scraper directly before glue up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acousticraft Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I have glued a few rosewood fingerboards and as long as they are clean and dust free there is no problems with the bond. To stop the problem with the fingerboard slipping and sliding all over the place once glued when clamping this is what I do. Get some brass thumb tacks and cut off the heads with side cutters. Align and dry clamp your fingerboard to the neck and by using a thumbtack as the drill bit, I drill through the fret slots in four places, two at each side of the first fret about 6mm in from the edge and and a couple at the last fret slot. I remove the finger board, drive in the pins in the neck so there is about 4mm of the sharpened end sticking up. Then it just a matter of spreading the glue on both surfaces, watching you don't spear your fingers, aligning the fingerboard onto the tacks and gently clamping it down. I have made a clamping board with a strip down each edge so the clamping is concentrated on the edges of the fingerboard where you want that invisible glue line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I dunno, maybe I'm superstitous, but I still like to wipe down more oily woods with acetone first. I've read the new MIMF FAQ so I get it, but still to my mind the crap that gets removed by the acetone can't be good for the bond. All the same, I also make sure the acetone has evaporated completely before applying the glue, as a solvent-wet joint also can't be good for bonding....which is why I use acetone instead of a less-volatile solvent like naptha or (m)ethanol. It is my impression that the problems arise from a joint that might still have wet solvent in it when the glue goes on. BTW never use acetone without ventilation and/or a charcoal breathing mask (carcinogen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 No cleanign with solvents is necessary, and yes, there is some evidence that wiping can negatively effect the glue bond. You should ensure that you have a freshly worked glue surface on both the neck and the FB, since glue sticks best to fresh, unoxidised surface. The best way to ensure this is to go over each piece with a scraper directly before glue up. Setch- Can you elaborate on the evidence that wiping has negative effects. It has been a while since I read anything on the subject, and I am curious. I had read that common opinion was to just prep the surface(fresh), and glue. (P.S.- I take what you say as fact. I am just curious as to what the negative effects actually are, and how that could effect my use of Acetone or Naptha in other situations). This is a bit from Franklin on their recommendations-(this is what my previous thinking was based upon) Get better results gluing woods that are oily or high in tannic acid. When working with woods that are high in tannic acid or are considered oily, wiping the joints with acetone before gluing them up ensures a good bond. Acetone clears the contaminants from the wood's pores on the bonding surface and dries quickly without leaving any residue. A good bonding surface can also be achieved by sanding or planing the wood just before gluing the joints. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 A couple of users on the mimf reported that they wiped joints in some woods, and suffered joint failure down the line. When they reglued the same joint without wiping, they didn't get joint failure. I have no idea why, but given the choice I prefer not to expose my glue to any contaminants which might effect it's strength. It's worth noting that Franklin suggest a good bond can also be achieved by simply planing or sanding the wood directly before glue up - something I belief is essential regardless of the wood in question. Just FYI acetone should be treated with care, but it's really pretty low down the list of risky substances. Vis a vis being carcenogenic: The Department of Health and Human Services, the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have not classified acetone for carcinogenicity. Acetone does not cause skin cancer in animals when applied to the skin. We don't know if breathing or swallowing acetone for long periods will cause cancer. Studies of workers exposed to it found no significant risk of death from cancer. You don't want to shower in it, but as a casual user you're unlikely to hurt yourself if you forget the mask now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I use it all the time and have no issue with it. I use it to clean super glue off my hands, I use puddles of it to float templates off pearl after cutting, the works. I never use a mask either. Acetone is really not one of the one's that I'm afraid of. I mean... it's fingernail polish remover... and that's exactly how I buy it, from CVS in the big nail polish removing bottles. Back on topic, sand right before you glue... isn't there also sayings that dust really harms a glue joint!? Or after you sand do you just wipe it dry with a cloth, and is this enough? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Agreed a freshly surfaced joint is best. The key is to have a good clean surface for the glue to get a good bite. To be honest I have never wiped a surface down so I have no real reference to it holding or failing due to cleaning with solvent. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Freshly planed/jointed surface, apply glue directly. Never wipe, never had joint failure issues...yet. And with the anectodal evidence, I see no reason to start wiping now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP63 Posted November 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Today I got the results of my practical test... I glued two pieces of ebony from the same fingerboard to a piece of maple on oposite sides of the maple. After two days, I struck the wood with a hammer to see which end held up the best. The side where I used naptha to clean beforehand, held the joint the best. No separation at the joint at all. The non-wiped side held good, but showed a small area where the crack was at the glue joint. I will wipe before gluing, but will let it dry thoroughly first, of course. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Today I got the results of my practical test... I glued two pieces of ebony from the same fingerboard to a piece of maple on oposite sides of the maple. After two days, I struck the wood with a hammer to see which end held up the best. The side where I used naptha to clean beforehand, held the joint the best. No separation at the joint at all. The non-wiped side held good, but showed a small area where the crack was at the glue joint. I will wipe before gluing, but will let it dry thoroughly first, of course. Thanks for the help. Clean is key. Be sure you don't accidentally push fine dust down close to the surface. I would vacume/blow it down, then wipe. I am not sure your test is absolutely definative, but if you are going to do it be sure to clean the surface dry before you wipe it. P.S. Nice to see someone test to get their answer. Instead of just accepting "probably". Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 I dunno, maybe I'm superstitous, but I still like to wipe down more oily woods with acetone first. I've read the new MIMF FAQ so I get it, but still to my mind the crap that gets removed by the acetone can't be good for the bond. All the same, I also make sure the acetone has evaporated completely before applying the glue, as a solvent-wet joint also can't be good for bonding....which is why I use acetone instead of a less-volatile solvent like naptha or (m)ethanol. It is my impression that the problems arise from a joint that might still have wet solvent in it when the glue goes on. BTW never use acetone without ventilation and/or a charcoal breathing mask (carcinogen). Napthalene is a lighter hydrocarbon than acetone, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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