Hok Kandy Question

[Xanthus]

I've bought some premixed HOK kandy apple red for the bevels on my Explorer. As I was reading through the website, though, it says that the clear needs to be sprayed over the red before it is dry. I was hoping to give it a bit of a level with some wetdry first, before spraying the clear. My reading gathered that basically the kandy and clear (or, klear) have to be done right after one another, in one sitting.

I've never used HOK before, or heard of this needing to be done to the color coats. Would I still be able to hit it with some wet sand first? I mean, in a perfect world, I wouldn't need to, I know, but just thought I'd ask the experts anyways.

[lovekraft]

Conventional wisdom says never sand a candy (or other transparent color) coat - the color depth changes with the thickness of the coat, and if you accidently sand through in spots, you'll never be able to match the color (IOW, it'll be blotchy - don't ask how I know that, just take my word for it! ), regardless of how carefully you touch it up. Spray several coats of clear, sand level, and then complete the clear-coating process. It's hard enough to keep the color consistent after several coats - adding sandpaper to the mix is flirting with disaster, IMO.

[Maiden69]

No wet sanding candy colors! Make sure your base is as smooth as you can get it. If you are using metalics, prep the best you can before the metalic goes on, if it is all HOK then one pas should be enough to cover nice and even. Once this is done you shot your candy bevel (I don't know since you don't say what you want, to mask the bevels or just like a burst on them) since all that candy is a clear with the color added to it, you can shot succesive coats of clear over them. This is the same that I do with nitro, but I don't have to shot right after I can wait since nitro burns right into the previous coats.

[Xanthus]

Thanks a lot guys, you've both saved me a lot of eventual frustration!

The bevels will be masked, Maiden. Here's the link to my album:

www.fotki.com/xanthus

I'll be doing the back of the neck and the bevels red. Thanks for the tip about spraying some clear first, Lovekraft. The bevels ARE nice and smooth, though, so I don't think I'll need to do a lot of sanding on them anyways. I hope

On another note, how many coats of clear is a good number to put over the guitar? I've got a quart (HOK doesn't sell anything smaller). I was thinking of spraying 3 or 4, sanding, and repeating, basically following LGM's clearing tutorial on this thread:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1892

[PaintIt]

It is possible to sand the candy without causing any issues but it is really difficult and not worth the time to level. The best way would be to spray your bevels , unmask and clear the whole guitar.

The only reason you would need to spray the clear on the candy while wet is if you were using HOK UK candy that reguires a catalyst like the clear. The reason for this is so that you get a chemical adhesion between the Kandy and clear. The addition of clear allows for the level sanding without hitting the candy. If you were to spray the UK Kandy and did not clear it would need to be sanded to allow the clear to get mechanical adhesion.

I would guess that you have Kandy concentrate that has been pre mixed in SG 100 intercoat clear . If so this is no different than basecoat and does not need to be cleared while wet. You have a 24 hour window for the clear to get chemical adhesion and then it would need a scratch.

Watch the thickness of your candy so you do not get to much of a tape edge and do not fod the candy on as it will get darker on the edges near the tape

Edited November 20, 2006 by PaintIt

[Xanthus]

Yeah, that's one thing I'm a bit concerned about is the lip over the edge of the tape, when I unmask the candy.

Is there any way to even it out, or will it disappear with the clearcoats?

On another note, I know my fotki page shows pictures of the guitar painted black and me (for the most part) really diggin' it. BUT when I got it under some good lighting, there were a few runs. Not high or thick, but they were there all the same. So, I decided to sand them down really lightly, and in the process, give all the black a rundown with some really light paper.

Well, I dunno what happened, but I sanded the little runs down, and the area around them, and looked at the guitar again under the light. Well, my sanding turned the black into a dark GRAY. Needless to say, I was pissed. I had done a decent area on the back with 1500, and it turned the black gray.

I had some scratch remover solution lying around, so I tried a bit of it on the area I ****ed up on. No luck with that, either. Out of options, I just decided to sand the whole thing down and start over again. Yeah, it's going to take MORE time than ever now, but it'll give me a chance to fix things that came up with the black over that weren't noticeable with just primer on (i.e. tiny scratches, small un-level surfaces).

So that's where I stand now, farther away from the finish line than before.

But, live and learn. More knowledge to use on the second project.

[suicidecustom]

hok candys need to be cleared right away because they remain gooey and doesnt harden (thats how they maintain their bright colors), any urethane automotive base coat does not have a catalyst thus needs to be cleared

[PaintIt]

hok candys need to be cleared right away because they remain gooey and doesnt harden (thats how they maintain their bright colors), any urethane automotive base coat does not have a catalyst thus needs to be cleared

There are 2 types of candy and they both dry to a non gooey finish. First is UK Kandy that requires a catalyst the same as clearcoat. The second is Kandy Koncentrate and it is just a dye that is mixed with a clear basecoat called intercoat clear ( SG100 is the name for HOK intercoat ). The reason for clearing the UK kandy while wet is so that you get good adhesion and do not to sand directly on the Kandy. When using KK and intercoat it is the same as base coat and has a 24 hour window before to clear then it should be sanded. If you spray the intercoat over the KK and intercoat you can increase the time you leave it open because it can now be sanded with out hitting the candy.

If I were doing this finish with red bevels I would paint the bevels silver and then candy letting both go over the bevel by an inch or so on each side so there is no hard edge. Then I would clear the bevels with 3 coats of intercoat clear. I would then paint the whole guitar black and then carefully snad the bevels with 800 wet to reveal the bevels. This way there is no had edge to worry about and no difficult masking of the bevels.

Edited December 4, 2006 by PaintIt

[Xanthus]

"If I were doing this finish with red bevels I would paint the bevels silver and then candy letting both go over the bevel by an inch or so on each side so there is no hard edge. Then I would clear the bevels with 3 coats of intercoat clear. I would then paint the whole guitar black and then carefully snad the bevels with 800 wet to reveal the bevels. This way there is no had edge to worry about and no difficult masking of the bevels."

Hahaha, talk about difficult masking of bevels, PaintIt! I wish I had thought of that process beforehand, because masking the bevels took about 1,000 hours to do. More or less.

But I'm definitely keeping that process in mind. Would it matter if the clear that I shot over the candy was just regular clear, or would it be better to be intercoat? It's not really a use to me now, I just sprayed the black on it last night, and the bevels were all taped up, but I'm anticipating my next project to be a Jackson V with a similar paint scheme.

I was planning to wetsand the black to get it REALLY flat and smooth, then buff it back out again before doing the red, and then shooting the whole thing with clear. Is this a generally accepted practice, or will I **** up the black coat again?

[PaintIt]

There is no need to buff out the black until the final clear has been applied. I would sand it with 600 if I were using auto basecoat. Not sure if you are using all auto products.

You can use final clear over the bevel instead of the intercoat. I prefer to use the final clear for this but it requires a full day cure opposed to 20 min with intercoat. The nice thing about the final clear is that it is harder to sand and this makes it less tedious to expose the red bevel.

[Xanthus]

Ah, ok, I'll keep that in mind for my next project.

I was wondering about the buffing because the last time I sanded the black down, it turned a dark, nasty gray color. By buffing it, the black would return to its original sheen, right? I wouldn't want to clear over a gray.

And yes, I'm using all auto paint. I got a quart of PPG black, and I'm using the HOK candy and Kustom Shop clear.

Wouldn't 600 be a bit rough? I was planning on using 1000-1500, because I thought the point of it was to get rid of the scratches Then again, I'm not the expert here

Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

[PaintIt]

The black will get dull due to sanding but that is what the clear is for. Wet the surface to see what the clear will do. As for the grit of paper you need to have enough scratch for the clear to adhere only if out of recoat window and 1500 is way to smooth. I have sanded as far as 400 over black and cannot see any scratches after clear. If you spray a level coat of black the only sanding it should really need if any is to nib sand any dust specs in the black before clearing. If you are out of the 24 hour recoat window then it is a good idea to scuff it.

[Xanthus]

Yeah, it was only for final smoothing and getting dust specks out. Thanks again, and I'll follow your steps. They seem a lot sounder than my own, hahaha