verhoevenc Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 How in the world would you do it!? And for those that don't know what a bent top is, think Brian Moore like this: Where the body wood is carved in an arch and the top is warped to follow that curve and then glued.... so you get kinda a carved top feel while still maintaining a carved topish look. The problem is, the bouts will be "Deeper" into the carve than the inlets... meaning you couldn't just use a bearing bit cause it always changes heights... not to mention the sides are never perpendicular to the sides. The only way I can really think of doing it is with a small chisel by hand... but that seems quite tedious... so I thought I'd ask ya'll first. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 How much tuffer do you think doing a bent top would be compaired to a spherical top on an acoustic? Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prauny Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Maybe they do it by hand like they did in the old days. I did my Les Paul bass by hand. I used a stanly blade to cut the whole binding channel. Did'nt take that long either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acousticraft Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 You would need a selection of different angle wedges to go under a binding cutter attachment to keep the router bit at the right angle. Looks like it would be a pretty tricky job though. It would take a CNC machine job to do that properly and accurately I would guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 ..looks no more difficult than binding a tapered, domed back on an acoustic. A Fleishmann/Williams style or Ribekke/LMI style jig should do the job. Basically, narrow footprint on the top, some way to index off the sides and keep the router perpendicular to them. Either that, or do a PRS-style faux binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahilltrade Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 im preatty sure they use a heat gun and just heat the binding as they go along the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I don't think chris is concerned about getting the binding to fit the channel(not a big deal, really, be it wood or plastic) as much as he's concerned about routing the channel for said binding. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechArt Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Probably a curved plywood press (RF glue press)...those presses can put tons of force on a body and should be adequate to form the top to the back..the RF glue takes a set in about a minute in one of those things. I think it would be OK to CNC carve the back, but I would then sand that nice and bend a nice thin piece of maple over it on the RF press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Probably a curved plywood press (RF glue press)...those presses can put tons of force on a body and should be adequate to form the top to the back..the RF glue takes a set in about a minute in one of those things. I think it would be OK to CNC carve the back, but I would then sand that nice and bend a nice thin piece of maple over it on the RF press. I think you may have missed the question entirely. He wasn't asking about how the top was put on at all. He was asking about the binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechArt Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 duh...sorry..must have been that guinness talking.. as acousticraft mentions..it really wouldn't be hard with a CNC & the angle cutters. Probably a curved plywood press (RF glue press)...those presses can put tons of force on a body and should be adequate to form the top to the back..the RF glue takes a set in about a minute in one of those things. I think it would be OK to CNC carve the back, but I would then sand that nice and bend a nice thin piece of maple over it on the RF press. I think you may have missed the question entirely. He wasn't asking about how the top was put on at all. He was asking about the binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Not to discredit your occupation, tech art, but you'll have to understand that a lot of us derive pleasure from building guitars from the fact that we're working with our hands. I've machined a fare amount of parts using cnc and it is a fun process, but it's just not the same as woodworking by hand. Also, the avg. joe does not have access to cnc and can't easily get access to it either (you said yourself that you would do runs of 10+ bodies at a time, not one). I think the easiest solution here, chris, is to go either with a hand held router jig like proposed earlier or the acoustic style donut around the router bit setup. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 A router or dremel would be the simple way to get it done. You can either keep the tool and body square to each other with jigs that hold them square as Mattia mentioned, or you can keep the tool square to the outer edge with bearings that align the tool with the outer edge. As usual Cutter bit and bearing is the ticket(bearing can be attached to a guide base or the actual bit). The router or dremel base needs to be fairly small to maintain depth without being effected by the top shape. For something like this I think one of those Stewmac attachments for your dremel(the one that resembles a notched piece of pipe) would certainly get er done. This is one of those things that you can use something that is simple and elegant and do a great job on, or you can make a tricky swing arm that keeps your router square to a fixture jig that locks the body in place. CNC could be nice if you felt the need, but I doubt it would be faster(placing it on the table and starting the machine and removing it from the table would take longer than running the router around- this is job that takes <1 minute). Peace,Rich P.S. It might be good for you to pick up or make a good jig for this type of thing. It will help out on your Archtop, and all those acoustics you will build in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 its actually extremely simpe to do. Take a decent look at the photo supplied, and you'll see how so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Wow.... thanks Perry! That was REALLY frickin' helpful....... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Alex Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Look at the sides of the guitar, in relation to the angle of the top, and to the flat surface the guitar is sitting on/suspended over. A router/dremel would follow the angle of the guitars sides, which appear to be at 90 degrees to the top, a "piece of piss" as we say around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I don't know why it is so hard to think that you can make a nice bent like that when I think that bending on a LP cut away will be much harder, especialy if you are using plastic binding. And from the guitars I see at the site, that one is the only one that appear to have cream binding, all the other ones have natural faux bind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Just in case-click or... click or... click or... click Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yeah, if you routed the body shape with the top bent on from the flat bottom, and then used the top as a guide and RE-ROUTED the body shape, then yes, you would have perpendicular sides at all points, and then yes you could route. But the orinaly idea here was a guitar with JUST the bent top, ie: the sides won't always be perpendicular to the top, hence the inherrent problem, and the question. The picture was given for reference as to what a bent top was for those who didn't know, not as a reference for body shape/angular associations. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yeah, if you routed the body shape with the top bent on from the flat bottom, and then used the top as a guide and RE-ROUTED the body shape, then yes, you would have perpendicular sides at all points, and then yes you could route. But the orinaly idea here was a guitar with JUST the bent top, ie: the sides won't always be perpendicular to the top, hence the inherrent problem, and the question. The picture was given for reference as to what a bent top was for those who didn't know, not as a reference for body shape/angular associations. Chris Chris, So help me follow what you are saying. You want to have binding that is not always perpendicular to the top. Looking at the picture I didn't get that, but.... If you routed your channel with say that little StewMac Dremel gizmo. Then you installed your binding(possibly oversized slightly), and then went back and scape the side edge to the angle you want to match the sides(being careful to leave the width of the binding on the top edge). Would this achieve your effect? Carving the whole thing manually will be very hard to keep even close to true. You have to reference two surfaces somehow to get depth and width of cut. If the side is greater than 90 degrees you going to have quite a time getting a nice binding line all the way around. Less than 90 and it would just be a bit of touch up scraping in those areas. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 and there in lies the problem lol Oh well, I guess the best way to do it is how Brian moore goes backa nd uses the top as the template to route the sides again making them angled too... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 and there in lies the problem lol Oh well, I guess the best way to do it is how Brian moore goes backa nd uses the top as the template to route the sides again making them angled too... Chris I don't get your statement Chris. Brian moore goes backa nd uses the top as the template to route the sides again making them angled too.... Does that mean He installs the top and then places a top template on the installed top? Please give a quick step by step. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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