Carvecaster: Phase Two

[Mickguard]

This is a test fit of what I've been working on for the past couple of weeks :

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It's a pretty extensive re-modification of the tele I modified last year. But that one didn't work out--the neck didn't fit the body and the bridge didn't fit the neck. So it was never all that comfortable to play. The biggest issue was finding a bridge to fit, because it's a really narrow MIM neck --every bridge I've tried (and I've tried five different tele plates and a hard-tail) had too wide a string spread. Even the one I bought that was supposed to have a narrower string spread. I even bought one of the Schaller 3d6 bridges, because the string spread is adjustable. But it just didn't look right (I used it on the Rocket)

A few months ago, I'd planed off the top of the guitar and added a maple cap. I also shaped a block of alder at that time to fill the neck pocket. But since I couldn't find the right bridge, I just let it sit in the closet.

But then, a tremolo came up on ebay here...I bid low, on a lark, and ended up winning. And what do you know--it's exactly the string spread I needed. I believe it's a Squier bridge, possibly an MIM though. And since I don't recall ever seeing a tele with a strat-style trem on it...I decided to go for it. Besides, I blocked the trem on my strat, but I need a guitar with a working trem.

There's still some tweaking to do --I need to shave the pickguard a bit, and continue filing (and polishing) both parts of the bridge (the pickup plate isn't screwed into place yet either). I also had to do some pretty extensive patching, but very little of that can be seen with all the parts on --for the trem spring route, I had to fill the former pickup cavity from the back (because I'd glued the top on without filling anything). Then I shaped a piece of maple to cover all that up.

I also need to drill or route a channel for the neck pickup wire, since I didn't plan ahead for that --I could have used the existing channel if I'd thought about it. I'll probably drill through the neck pocket and to the bridge pickup cavity.

I made the mistake of routing the control cavity before I'd routed the new neck pocket --which of course ended up changing my center line, so the control cavity was skewed (I believe the original body routes were never straight, this guitar started off life as a cheap knockoff). I had to glue in a patch and then correct the line (if it looks a little off, that's because of the join of the pieces of maple).

In the photo, the neck isn't bolted in yet...the pocket is pretty snug.

I routed a universal cavity for the neck pickup --in case this one (a GFS Brooklyn) doesn't work out, I can change it for a humbucker, or a true P90 or go back to the lipstick. I like the looks of this one though.

Once all the routing and adjustments are done, I'll plane off about half a millimeter to a millimeter of the maple top, which will also clean up the wood a lot. I'm planning on keeping the top the natural maple color --it's very close to my favorite tele color. Unless by some miracle I can find a can of nitro transparent off-white ... I'll also probably do that faux binding thing, since it's pretty much already done. I'm not sure what to do about the back and sides...I like the natural color of this wood (alder), it's a deep reddish brown. Only problem is that the alder I added into the neck pocket is very visible --I'm working on a patch to glue onto the sides, to smooth out the transition between the two woods. But I might have to paint at least that part of the guitar (I plan to paint the trem spring cavity too, since I won't be putting a cover on it).

For the finish...I just ordered a bunch of cans of nitro clear and nitro sealer. They'll be here next week...gives me plenty of time to sand.

[GregP]

My verdict: cool-tacular!

Once you've done the final processes you discuss, it'll be a cool guitar. That GFS pickup looks WAY cooler installed than it does in their inventory photos. Me likes.

Greg

[Mickguard]

I admit I kind of like the junkyard dog look it has now...that'll all be covered up in the end though.

It's funny because of Myka's bonfire thread --of course, he's a professional, he's got a reputation to live up to. But I'm just not willing to toss a guitar out just yet. I'm still in learning mode, so there's no reason not to push this as far as I can.

I had the GFS installed in another guitar a while back (together with the matching bridge pickup)-- it's got a sound all its own. Honky-like, kind of hollow feel to it, but with the same kind of beef as a regular P90. I figure it'll help balance out the bridge pickup . I'm hoping the GFS isn't too hot for that--otherwise, I'll install a second volume for it.

I've been thinking about trying to get a fairly transparent colo on there. I don't know if it'll work--but I'm thinking that I can try to spray a color coat (no primer), then sand that back pretty far. Maybe that will be enough to get the color on there, hide some the few visible patches, but still let the grain show through?

[WezV]

its cool to have the look of a tele andhave the trem as well!

And there is nothing wrong with the occasional junkyard dog

[Vinny]

Very cool! I agree it has a vintage look just the way it is. -Vinny

[tirapop]

Mick,

I'm just too old fashioned. Trem on a Tele? Has to be a Bigsby.

[Mickguard]

I'm just too old fashioned. Trem on a Tele? Has to be a Bigsby.

Heh ...the original mod to this guitar was a bigsby...

Anyway, I sanded down the top yesterday. It looks pretty good but there is that small patch at the top and the glue line between the cap and the body, which is pretty visible in places. So I'm considering going with paint after all.

If I paint it, then I have the option of adding a forearm contour ....I've resisted that one, because I think a tele should have a flat top. But I have to say that the strat really is much more comfortable to play there. If I carve it, I'll definitely go through the maple and into the alder, which is why it'll have to be painted.

[tim_ado]

this looks sweet

id try a natural finish

i could be wrong cuz i have no idea about finishes but some time when uve got another wood coming through on c contour or somthing natural can look really mad

go with the contour

uve got the tremolo

run from the normal

[Mickguard]

i could be wrong cuz i have no idea about finishes but some time when uve got another wood coming through on c contour or somthing natural can look really mad

=

yeah, I like that blended wood thing too. But not for this guitar, I'm pretty set on a solid or semi-translucent white for this one.

And I found a pretty good compromise for the forearm carve --since the maple is about 6 mm thick, I carved it down to 2 mm at the edge...that should be enough to reduce the hard edge of the tele, without destroying the flat-top look. And this way, too, when and if the paint wears through, it'll be the maple that shows, not the alder.

I've been reading about this new 'thin skin' finish --I'm wondering how many coats of clear is needed for that? Certainly not the 15 coats you're supposed to put on for a 'normal' finish.

[Mickguard]

Well, I screwed up the final sanding/polishing part, as usual, but I figured I'd post a few thumbnails of the guitar as it stands now:

It's hard to see in the photos ( ) but I pretty much botched the wetsanding--I was much too aggressive about it, and I'd only put on a thin finish, so I have some pretty bad sandthrough in a bunch of places. The maple was the worst, possibly because it soaked up more of the finish than the alder.

It's also the first time I've worked with nitro, so there's a learning curve there too. I have to say though that this stuff is great, and the parts where I didn't screw up look great, as good as any factory finish I have. (It looks satin in the photos, but it's actually glossy)

I know what I did wrong though-- for one, I used way too much water when wetsanding (and probably started with too low a grain). And the other, I tried to cover too much ground all at once. I should have just done bit by bit. All this was explained to me by my guitar teacher, who's also a really accomplished woodworker. He's started building guitars too.

Ah well. I decided to put the guitar together anyway, and I'm really pleased with the result--the sound is just perfect, the guitar plays great, the intonation is spot on and by the time I'm done setting it up, it should be an awesome player. So at least I got that part okay.

Also I made a nice leap forward with my soldering technique--usually I botch that completely and it's a mess. But following the tutorial that was posted (the link that is), I was able to do a nice clean job. I even put a treble bleed on the volume knob. The mini-switch is a dummy, just filling a hole.

Oh yeah, and the trem works great--and I think it adds to the sound...the tele pickup (Fender MIA) still has the bite, but it seems fuller. The neck pickup (GFS Brooklyn) has a sound of its own...gets a great overdriven sound. The middle position is weird--maybe the pickups are out of phase, but instead of a fuller sound, it actually kind of hollows out....sounds pretty good still.

I used Graphtech for the string trees, nut and saddles, and those are locking tuners. So the thing actually stays in tune really well, even when abusing the trem. If I had known about the Trem King before I started, I might have gone for that instead...considering it for another tele-type project down the line.

And whether it stays in tune well is going to be the deciding factor on whether I redo the finish or not--if it turns out to be a real player, then I'll go ahead and get the finish right. I figure when the next project is done, I can spray both at the same time.

In the meantime, it doesn't look bad--has more of a reliced look to it. If I'm lucky, the sand-through areas will take on a life of their own. Maybe I'll end up keeping it as is.

[Geo]

Oh yeah, and the trem works great--and I think it adds to the sound...the tele pickup (Fender MIA) still has the bite, but it seems fuller. The neck pickup (GFS Brooklyn) has a sound of its own...gets a great overdriven sound. The middle position is weird--maybe the pickups are out of phase, but instead of a fuller sound, it actually kind of hollows out....sounds pretty good still.

When you put two coils in parallel, I believe the output is actually lower than either coil alone. You have to wire them in series to get a louder output. To my ears, the parallel positions on a Strat always sound a little weaker. Plenty of character, but maybe with some mids removed. The DC resistance of a coil gives you an idea of its output level (e.g. 4k vs. 10k); and of course, resistors in series add, and resistors in parallel go by 1/R1 + 1/R2 = 1/Rt.

The "phase" of pickups is a confusing subject. As I understand it, you have magnetic polarity and electric phase. For a combination of coils to cancel hum and not cancel signal, they must be out of phase both magnetically (north vs. south) and electrically. Perhaps your pickups have the same magnetic polarity, or, if they don't, they are physically wired out of phase. You can always switch the wires and see how it sounds.

I might have that wrong. And you probably know more about this stuff than me.

BTW, the Tele looks awesome.

Edited March 10, 2007 by Geo

[Mickguard]

I might have that wrong. And you probably know more about this stuff than me.

No, I'm pretty new at all of this, especially the electronics. But you're probably right, the two pickups weren't meant to be matched...I'd prefer to have a true middle position, but maybe that's not possible? Or maybe I attached one of the pickups to the wrong lug? I should probably post the question in the electronics section.

It's not such a big deal, because it's really the bridge position that I'm after, and that part sounds great.

[Vinny]

Nice build Mick, I dig Teles au natural, -Vinny

[Geo]

I'd prefer to have a true middle position, but maybe that's not possible? Or maybe I attached one of the pickups to the wrong lug?

Well, let me talk myself through this. You probably have an "out of phase" (thin) sound now, which means that your signal is being partially cancelled. You can't change the magnetic polarity of either pickup unless it has a bar magnet on the bottom (in which case you could carefully pull it off and flip it over, reattach w/superglue).

I think the out of phase sound means one of two things: 1) the pickups are magnetically opposite polarity but wired electrically in phase; 2) the pickups are magnetically the same polarity but wired electrically out of phase.

I would try switching your ground and hot leads on ONE of the pickups. This would fix either situation. But I think that if your situation is #2, you will no longer have hum cancelling in the middle position if you reverse the leads of one pickup. But it would certainly be worth it, I think, to get a better sound.

To try and state it another way: if the magnets are of opposite polarity, I believe the electric out-of-phaseness + the magnetic out-of-phaseness will make for signal in-phaseness and hum cancelling. If the pickups are magnetically the same polarity and electrically IN phase, you will have in-phase tone but no hum cancelling.

To give credit where it's due... I learned this on the Hoffman Amps forum.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Geo

[Bertbart]

It's hard to see in the photos ( ) but I pretty much botched the wetsanding--I was much too aggressive about it, and I'd only put on a thin finish, so I have some pretty bad sandthrough in a bunch of places. The maple was the worst, possibly because it soaked up more of the finish than the alder.

It's also the first time I've worked with nitro, so there's a learning curve there too. I have to say though that this stuff is great, and the parts where I didn't screw up look great, as good as any factory finish I have. (It looks satin in the photos, but it's actually glossy)

I know what I did wrong though-- for one, I used way too much water when wetsanding (and probably started with too low a grain). And the other, I tried to cover too much ground all at once. I should have just done bit by bit. All this was explained to me by my guitar teacher, who's also a really accomplished woodworker. He's started building guitars too.

Mick next time buy some Behlen's Vinyl Sealer and shoot it before you start shooting top coat lacquer. The sealer will fill the grain with just a couple, maybe three coats. Just shoot a medium heavy coat first then wait a couple of hours and scuff with 360 grit paper with naphtha instead of water. Shoot a heavy coat the second go round and leave it overnight. Then wet sand all flat areas with a rubber block using naphtha again. Have some bounty paper towels handy to wipe where you've sanded and look for shiny spots that's where the finish is still low and it needs some more sanding. Don't go after it too hard because if it doesn't level up you can hit it with more sealer the the third time. The reason to use naphtha is that naphtha will not raise the grain like water will if you cut through the sealer. Naphtha will make your wet -dry paper last twice as long. Oh yea, when using naphtha do it in a well ventilated area and no where near a flame or ignition source. I have a fan at my back about ten feet away when I use naphtha. The surface should be pretty much level before you even start shooting lacquer top coats. After about three good coats of top coat lacquer you should use a rubber block with 400 grit naphtha again and then more top coats until after you've sanded it and there are no shiny places. Then add a little more thinner to the last two coats (Be careful not to run the last two coats) Then use 1500 grit again with naphtha and rub it out or go the 2000 grit and rub it out with compound. If you go all the way to 2000 grit you won't need a buffer; it will rub out by hand.

The key to all the above is use Behlen's Vinyl Sealer and naphtha instead of water. Start with 360 grit and work your way up to 2000 grit.

[Mickguard]

I used a nitro-based sanding sealer, same brand as the clear I used. That part seemed to have gone well, I'd put on four coats and (dry) sanded back lightly between coats.

But wetsanding with naphtha makes a lot of sense, since I'd definitely use less of it and it evaporates very quickly. I think I'll give that a try next time around.

In the meantime, I set the guitar up--adjusted the truss rod to pretty close to Fender specs (they want 0.25 mm relief, while I could only manage about 0.35 mm--maybe with lighter strings, but I don't really like a board that flat). So now the guitar plays really well.

I originally had 2 springs on and set the bridge to float. But now I have three springs on there and the bridge is set to just barely float above the body --I don't really pull up much. I like the firmer trem action. I don't know if it stays in tune any better though --it seems to me that with three springs the tuning has more of a tendency to get 'blocked' after using the trem (where you have to release it again by dipping the trem again).

I'm really pleased with the guitar now --it's the first guitar I've built (well, it's somewhere between a mod and a build) that is a player, not just something to put on the wall (or in the closet). So I think I'll go ahead and refinish it when the time comes.

[Bertbart]

In the meantime, I set the guitar up--adjusted the truss rod to pretty close to Fender specs (they want 0.25 mm relief, while I could only manage about 0.35 mm--maybe with lighter strings, but I don't really like a board that flat). So now the guitar plays really well.

I originally had 2 springs on and set the bridge to float. But now I have three springs on there and the bridge is set to just barely float above the body --I don't really pull up much. I like the firmer trem action. I don't know if it stays in tune any better though --it seems to me that with three springs the tuning has more of a tendency to get 'blocked' after using the trem (where you have to release it again by dipping the trem again).

Mick,

The strings could be binding in the nut. Lube the nut slots. Sharpen a #2 pencil and rub the point into the nut slots and see if that helps. Also check the six screws that the bridge pivots on to see if the plate is touching all six screws equally. I used to back off the middle four slightly so the bridge pivoted mostly on the outside two screws. Also check to see if the Strat bridge front lip is touching the cut Telly plate any place where it might bind.

[Mickguard]

The strings could be binding in the nut. Lube the nut slots. Sharpen a #2 pencil and rub the point into the nut slots and see if that helps. Also check the six screws that the bridge pivots on to see if the plate is touching all six screws equally. I used to back off the middle four slightly so the bridge pivoted mostly on the outside two screws. Also check to see if the Strat bridge front lip is touching the cut Telly plate any place where it might bind.

It's a Graphtech nut, so the pencil lead is supposedly less slippery, but I'm pretty sure it's not binding at the nut (no pinging, at least). I have to check and make sure the string trees (also Graphtech) are straight --especially the D & G tree--the slots are a bit narrow. It doesn't bind up all the time though, only on deep bends where I let up real quickly.

I didn't know about the plate screws--I have the feeling I did it the other way around. I'll check that out. The plate's not touching the tele plate though, there's plenty of clearance there.

Seems like everyone has their special sauce for setting up a trem, eh?