chennik Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I’m starting to plan out my first build, and one of the things I’ve considered doing to save myself from screwing it up is purchasing a pre-slotted fretboard. I’d like a 24 fret ebony board with a relatively flat radius (14” or 16”) but I’m running into problems finding what I’m looking for. Scale length is not important yet since I’m still in the early stages of planning and can shift the design to accommodate, and I’m comfortable playing with pretty much any of the common scale lengths. I figured that for a first build, it would be easier to use a constant radius fretboard, but the preslotted boards that I see Stew-Mac selling are either 12” radius (a bit too round for my taste) in both Fender and Gibson scale length or a compound radius (10-16”) in Fender scale, which would work with my playing style, but I have no idea as far as how to do a good job of fretting and leveling frets on a compound radius board, and I’m not sure if that’s a good idea for a first build. Beyond that, I haven’t found much in the way of pre-slotted boards out there. Does anyone know where I can find slotted 24 fret ebony boards either unradiused or 14” or 16”? Or, as another alternative, is it worth the effort to buy a board with a 12” radius and sand it down to a flatter profile with say a 16” radius sanding block? Or is that one of those things that can be done but it a bit too much of a hassle? I know doing so makes the fretboard thinner and ebony isn’t known for being the easiest wood to work with. I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) LMI does all manner of slotting, and radiusses to either 12"or 16", to order. Check there. Edited February 2, 2007 by Mattia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I'd buy a slotted but un-radiused board & buy or make some radius blocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 www.lmii.com yes they can make what you want...and no,buying radius blocks and doing it yourself is not better... i always buy fretboards from lmii...instead of ordering online,call them on the phone and tell them exactly what you want.ibought one board from doug on this board,but he says he doesn't do that much.lmii is what you want. they come a little thick(1/4") for my taste...i always take 1/16" off the back with a jointer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 www.lmii.com yes they can make what you want...and no,buying radius blocks and doing it yourself is not better... While making radiusing the fretboard yourself doen't necessarily mean better, it really should be of equal or better quality. For ebony boards, I like www.warmoth.com. When I changed the fretboard on my 1987 Ibanez Jem, that where I got the board and it was absolutely top quality. I highly recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 While making radiusing the fretboard yourself doen't necessarily mean better, it really should be of equal or better quality. not when those radius blocks you buy from stewmac are imperfect...which they are.the machinery lmii and the other places use to radius is much more accurate than sanding with the radius blocks in my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Here is another place to look for machined fretboards-Allen Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I didn't claim that radiusing yourself is better but if you have your own blocks (they're quite cheap to buy), you'll save a little cash when buying pre-slotted boards & you'll be one tool closer to making any fingerboard you like in the future. They can also be used to re-radius existing necks & as fret clamping cauls. I tend to think long term investment...in the UK, fingerboards are cheaper un-radiused & depending on the wood, scale & radius it is often easier buy a slotted board & radius to whatever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 While making radiusing the fretboard yourself doen't necessarily mean better, it really should be of equal or better quality. not when those radius blocks you buy from stewmac are imperfect...which they are.the machinery lmii and the other places use to radius is much more accurate than sanding with the radius blocks in my experience Wes, a piece of wood is imperfect... yes. I really think you're splitting hairs here. I have NEVER had a problem with using a radius block. Of course, when using a radius block by hand, the radius may not be perfect but I think that those minute imperfections are inconsequential in getting a quality neck. Maybe my standards are not high enough but frankly, I can't really tell the difference on a good job done by hand VS a pre-radiused board. I had a guy from Nova Scotia (Canada) make me some radius blocks and they match the stew mac fret press cauls. I'm happy with the results. On my fretboards, I like to integrate a bit of a fallout on the end of the neck and a store-bought fretboard won't get me that. I make the fretboard myself so I can fine tune the thing the way I like it. I have more fallout on bolt on necks and slightly less on set necks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Wes, a piece of wood is imperfect... yes. i had a really nice reply all wrote out and lost it because of my g-damned internet.... i am not going to even try to repeat it...but i will just say my radius blocks from stewmac suck,and ebony is very difficult to radius by hand. don't accept imperfection in your tools,or your work can never be top quality...i get much better results by ordering preradiused and cleaning it up from there by hand... imo the only blocks good enough are the aluminum ones,and they cost too much. if i accept a less than perfect radius block,then my radius won't be right,my fret job won't be right,and my guitar will play like an ltd model....ltd models are cheaper to buy than to build...so there you go i assure you my lost post was much more eloquent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Ebony is an absolute NIGHTMARE to radius by hand. A good radius block is always decent, and a good way to clean up, but frankly I prefer to use a router radiussing setup (just google, look around the forums, whatever, enough out there on this topic that I'm not in the mood to rehash again), and a flat straightedged leveller to clean up any fuzz/irregularity. Radius blocks, imperfect though they may be, can still be used to get a perfectly good surface; that's down to the user, judicious use of straight levellers, and a good quality straightedge to make sure you're where you need to be. Buying a pre-radiussed board means diddly; once you glue, you need to re-level anyway most of the time, at least a tiny amount. Add inlay? needs levelling. I also don't give a rats backside whether my board has a 12", a 12.1" radius, whatever. Your strings don't actually want to follow an exact radius, because each string needs different action, determined by guage. I also don't strive for as-low-as-I-can-get-it action, just comfortably low, because I do tend to like to dig into the strings with the picking hand a little, and absurdly low action requires different technique. I can get it lower, but I don't find it terribly comfortable. But Wes is right in saying that trying to go from flat board to radiussed board with sanding blocks is a long, painful road that's no likely to lead to success. Me? I think it's worth the 9 extra bucks. Or worth building a proper radiussing jig that doesn't rely on muscle power. Or get good enough to learn to use a handplane to do the primary radius, and touch up/clean up with a block, in my case preferably a straight one. Also, I've heard a few folks complain about the aluminum blocks as well, so I'm not sure they're the be all and end all. Anyway, since I'm planning on switching to compound radius boards on pretty much all my builds, the discussion's sort of moot for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Buying a pre-radiussed board means diddly it means you are already close...15 minutes of cleanup after glueing to a neck vs hours of hand sanding with a radius block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Buying a pre-radiussed board means diddly; once you glue, you need to re-level anyway most of the time, at least a tiny amount. Add inlay? needs levelling. I also don't give a rats backside whether my board has a 12", a 12.1" radius, whatever. Your strings don't actually want to follow an exact radius, because each string needs different action, determined by guage. I also don't strive for as-low-as-I-can-get-it action, just comfortably low, because I do tend to like to dig into the strings with the picking hand a little, and absurdly low action requires different technique. I can get it lower, but I don't find it terribly comfortable. Exactly - That's what I was trying to convey in my post. You really need to carefully check that everything is top notch before installing the frets. Hell, I've done a fret job with nothing more than a flat sanding block, some small pliers and hammer. Turned out fine. A good straightedge is your friend. I like real low action on my shredder guitars and I can achieve that with manually radiusing the board (I've done it in the past) But Wes is right in saying that trying to go from flat board to radiussed board with sanding blocks is a long, painful road that's no likely to lead to success. Me? I think it's worth the 9 extra bucks. Or worth building a proper radiussing jig that doesn't rely on muscle power. Or get good enough to learn to use a handplane to do the primary radius, and touch up/clean up with a block, in my case preferably a straight one. Also, I've heard a few folks complain about the aluminum blocks as well, so I'm not sure they're the be all and end all. So are you (Mattia) and Wes saying that a top notch job cannot be done with a radius sanding block? I find that hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Wes saying that a top notch job cannot be done with a radius sanding block? i did not say that,do not put words in my mouth. i said that the stewmac radiused blocks i have are imperfect,and that buying a radius blck and expecting to get a perfect fretboard radius with it is unreasonable...imperfect tools= imperfect work. like this laptop keyboard...on my desktop last i was here my typing was perfect...on this sloppy keyboard my typing sucks ass...you are no better than the tools you use do not turn my specifics into generalities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) Buying a pre-radiussed board means diddly it means you are already close...15 minutes of cleanup after glueing to a neck vs hours of hand sanding with a radius block You're exaggerating. Hours? I've radiused and trued up the fretboard on my latest project in 45min. Ebony would have taken longer but there's no way it would takes hours. Edited February 2, 2007 by guitar2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Buying a pre-radiussed board means diddly it means you are already close...15 minutes of cleanup after glueing to a neck vs hours of hand sanding with a radius block You're exaggerating. Hours? I've radiused and trued up the fretboard on my latest project in 45min. Ebony would have taken longer but there's no way it would takes hours. then do it...tell me how much you like it. "i have never done it but it can't be true" ...well i have done it.it's true.i am not exaggerating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Buying a pre-radiussed board means diddly it means you are already close...15 minutes of cleanup after glueing to a neck vs hours of hand sanding with a radius block You're exaggerating. Hours? I've radiused and trued up the fretboard on my latest project in 45min. Ebony would have taken longer but there's no way it would takes hours. then do it...tell me how much you like it. "i have never done it but it can't be true" ...well i have done it.it's true.i am not exaggerating Wes is totally right; hours is definitly the right word to use if you need to even take the board down 1/16" in thickness on top of adding the radius. A good job can be done with radius blocks; that depends on the user, rather than the tool (within limits), but it's not a pleasant job. I've done 4 ebony boards by hand, with a radius block, and trust me, never, ever again. It takes less time to build a good radiussing fixture than it does to do 2 ebony boards to the same level of quality. Wes: I meant it means diddly in terms of final quality per se. It makes it easier to achieve, but it's not required for a good result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Wes saying that a top notch job cannot be done with a radius sanding block? i did not say that,do not put words in my mouth. i said that the stewmac radiused blocks i have are imperfect,and that buying a radius blck and expecting to get a perfect fretboard radius with it is unreasonable...imperfect tools= imperfect work. do not turn my specifics into generalities I didn't put words in your mouth... That was a question. Maybe you missed the question mark. In the end, you use what works for you. I want to use any wood I want and any scale I want - Therefore, I slot and radius the board myself. These imperfections you are talking about with regards to the stew-mac blocks, I cannot comment on. Maybe you should get a refund from Stew-Mac.... I don't know. Regardless, because the fretboard is being sanded by hand with a block, it will not be perfect. Even with a pre-radiused board, you'll need to touch up and again, it won't be perfect (unless we have a different definition of perfect). It can be within very tight tolerances and that's all you need. You define the tolerances and get there in whichever way you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doeringer Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Wes is totally right; hours is definitly the right word to use if you need to even take the board down 1/16" in thickness on top of adding the radius. No, he said he uses a joiner for that, maybe 3 passes at a very conservative setting. Still doesn't take hours. I agree the blocks are not perfect and I usually use them for clean up and cauls. And I agree with having a quality straight edge. Assuming that either way you go, you have the skills to get the final product done correctly... I look at it this way, pre-radiused boards cost an extra $8-12 bucks. So even if it ONLY saves 45 mins it is a worthy cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 No, he said he uses a joiner for that, maybe 3 passes at a very conservative setting.dude...i would be risking serious blade damage and tearout cutting that deep..i set it so it barely skims it...1/16" takes about 15 passes or so. but no,i don't take off a 1/16" on the radius side...i go off the back...i DID take it off the front once...when i already glued it up before i realized i needed to thin it...god that was a nightmare. but it doesn't matter.you would be surprised how slow ebony radiuses with a block.and the closer you get to the radius,the more surface you are sanding... I look at it this way, pre-radiused boards cost an extra $8-12 bucks. So even if it ONLY saves 45 mins it is a worthy cost. hell yeah...that time is better spent elsewhere...like final prepping before fretting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doeringer Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 dude...i would be risking serious blade damage and tearout cutting that deep..i set it so it barely skims it...1/16" takes about 15 passes or so. Gotcha! but even at 15 passes, that is still not a lot of time. So exactly what is 1/15th of 1/16? 1/240th if my math is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 dude...i would be risking serious blade damage and tearout cutting that deep..i set it so it barely skims it...1/16" takes about 15 passes or so. Gotcha! but even at 15 passes, that is still not a lot of time. So exactly what is 1/15th of 1/16? 1/240th if my math is right LOL - good luck setting that up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 i don't measure it...i just set it to skim the surface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 this place is not cheap but the quality is the best...(they supply the industry its woods in general) http://exoticwoods.com/FB-BB-PH-MOP/fbslotted.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 i don't measure it...i just set it to skim the surface Whatever... to say that it would take several HOURS to properly radius a board (not thickness the board) was overly exagerated; ebony or not. Bottom line: Radiusing by hand is an option when shopping for a fingerboard - That's all we're trying to say here. Of course, there is more effort involved. End of story. I stand by my www.warmoth.com recommendation for ebony boards. Great product but 10" radius only. Could be radiused down to 12" or 16" easily... if you're handy and have a little patience, regardless of method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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