Replacing Missing Headstock

[docbass]

I've repaired some cracked/broken headstocks, but I'm into new territory with this basket case I picked up recently. I've always had the remains of the headstock to work with before. This one is quite different. It's a rare 60's non-reverse T-bird bass, so it's worth rehabing for my purposes (I collect Gibsons to play and keep).

I'll be removing the fret board and replacing the truss rod to be sure. The frets are pretty worn, so I might do a new board and frets anyway. The broken part of the neck will be cut to a more agreeable flat surface with an angle for grafting purposes.

I've contemplated two paths to follow: grafting new mahogany to the broken neck area first, then grafting the new angled headstock to that. Or, using a thick piece of mahogany and carving out the neck patch and headstock from a single piece, then grafting it to the neck.

Any thoughts or words of wisdom based on experience/expertise that you could share would be greatly appreciated.

Edited March 15, 2007 by docbass

[Mickguard]

(edited my original reply after seeing what's possible with a headstock rebuild)

[WezV]

First things first, i cant remember if the non-reverse firebirds had set necks or thru-necks.

If its a set-neck i would be tempted to make a new neck, mainly because you say you want to keep and play it and that would be the stronger repair. If its a thr-neck its obviously harder to replace the neck but it could be cut off and turned into a set-neck but that would change the essence of the guitar a bit too much for my liking.

I would be tempted to graft on one whole new bit. You have probably seen this already but in the library at mimf.com there is an article about replacing a missing headstock on a classical. Go to the library (you need to be registered) and search for:

"jim McConkey's photo essay on replacing a guitar peghead"

Jims break isnt as bad as yours because it doesnt extend as far down the neck but i think the same repair technique is the only viable way to save this neck. You would have to cut away a lot of you neck for the splice If i was doing this i would add some CF bars to the neck afterwards to provide a bit of extra support.

Personally, all things considered, i would be looking at a new neck especially since you dont have the headstock with the all important logo anyway

[docbass]

I understand the new neck argument. The neck is set, it wouldn't take a lot to remove and replace it. After recreating it, of course. My thoughts behind the repair was keeping as much of the old neck as I could. That's my little hangup as a Gibson fan and collector. Not to mention the challenge of actually saving the old neck and grafting on a new headstock.

It's a tough call, but all of the options are viable. I have an acquitance in another forum who just showed me the exact same repair he did on one of his personal guitars.

Well, I've got time to think it over while I strip it this week end. I figure if I do try the repair and it fails, the new neck option is always there and I learned something from the experience. The curse of being a teacher I guess. I'm not afraid to learn from my adventures (or misadventures).

[biliousfrog]

I can't give any experience with regard to fixing the neck, just a suggestion that someone else might be able to agree with or dismiss. The break area has left almost a natural "V" shape at the headstock end....could you maybe cut the area into a V & add the headstock with a corresponding wedge shape? It would retain about as much of the original neck as possible, create a much larger glueing surface & spread the usual tension found on a scarf joint along the neck.

As I mentioned, I haven't got any experience with neck repair but I have done similar repairs to furniture & I'm quite sure that I've seen it done on guitars.

[Southpa]

That almost looks like another classic Gibson scarf joint failure. Of course, they aren't invinceable. I guess you would have to cut the broken section down to a clean flat scarf (after removing the fb and truss rod, of course, ). Then cut a headstock section out of mahogany and scarfed at the exact same angle. Its a tough call depending on how much of the neck you have to remove to get to "good" wood. Pros and cons. I don't know if two scarf joints is appropriate and one scarf joint with the headstock carved out of a thick piece would give you angled grain in the headstock. The tricky part is making a secure clamping jig for mating the two pieces firmly together. I usually like to do scarf joints while the wood is still square but you have no choice. Once you get that done rout the truss rod slot and truss rod anchor hole in the new piece and reassemble. Not that hard so long as your new scarf joint is done well and you've got the truss rod and nut placement where they should be.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Southpa

[Mattia]

Gibson what?

When did Gibsoen ever use scarf joints? The whole reason their headstocks are weak and break easily is the one-piece, tons-of-short-grain construction the damn things have...

[Southpa]

In that case I guess carving a new piece from a solid block is the answer, making it like it used to be, but it WILL have a scarf joint. Sorry, I thought angled headstock Gibsons were made w/ scarf joints, must've been thinking of Epi's.

[docbass]

Yep. First, I'm gonna graft a new piece of mahog into the divit on the back of the neck. Then add a new headstock that will run below the nut with a scarf joint. First, I've gotta get all that crap paint off of it, then we'll move forward with the wood repairs. As I said, just doing this will be worth the effort and experience gained. Thanks again folks.

[Jon]

How many basses out there (models in specific) have mahogany necks? This is something new to me.

[docbass]

How many basses out there (models in specific) have mahogany necks? This is something new to me.

Almost all Gibson basses have mahogany necks. T-Birds, EB-0 (SG shape), EB-1, EB-2, EB-3, Les Pauls and many of their new models as well. The only maple necks were typically on Grabbers and Rippers in the 80's. I'm sure I've missed a few models, like the RD and Victory, but these are the main ones.

[MartyM]

Hi,

I've done a few of these over the last couple of years. It actually isn't as hard as it appears. I've left the fingerboard on in all the cases. First, after removing the rod nut and washer, I'd take a small thin handsaw and cut on both sides of the truss rod to expose new wood. I try to avoid the nut area if possible, but have remade the peghead with a new surface for the nut too in a couple of cases.

I have a squared up block of wood ( basswood in my case) with a channel running down the middle of it. Using carpet tape on both sides of the routed slot on the basswood block, I stick 60-80 grit cloth backed abrasive paper. This gets used as a plane on the freshly cut mahogany surfaces. The truss rod rides in the slot of the block. I sand in only one direction, trying to keep the surface straight and not hollow in the middle.

The mahogany get leveled pretty easily if your saw cuts are right on. This leaves a raised area of wood in line with the truss rod. This raised portion gets removed with a chisel and scraper. When both sides of mahogany are flat, straight, and even, I make the peghead replacement part. I try and get the grain direction the same on the new piece of mahogany. This involves cutting out a triangle shaped pc. of wood. Using abrasives, a plane, or what ever you use to true up your wood, the triangle needs a slot on the glue side and adjustment rod cavity on the peghead side. I use a forstner bit, rounded gouge and exacto knife to make the adj. rod cavity. The slot for the rod can be made on a router table.

I dry fit the peghead and make adjustments until the mating surfaces are good to go. Using many small C clamps and angled cauls, The new wood gets clamped down. Finally the peghead gets shaped, drilled, a new overlay etc.

This repair is a good test of your abilities and makes for a satisfying feeling that you've saved a guitar from the trash bin and given it another lease on life. My first few weren't perfectly square to the neck, but not horribly off either. The more of these I've done, the faster and better they have become. It's one way to make your gibson collection larger without a major capital investment.

Marty

[MartyM]

Oh, and I have a couple Gibson Marauder necks here with scarf joints from the factory.:-)

[soapbarstrat]

In the old Erlewine 'broken headstocks' video, he has one case that's a classical guitar with a broken off headstock, and to fix it, some hack had milled a flat area off half the back of the neck, screwed a flat steel bar onto that. the steel bar extended onto the headstock area, so the hack screwed the headstock onto the end of the steel bar. As a result, the headstock was no longer angled back. Pretty damn hilarious.

Erlewine decides to remove half of the neck, leaving the fret-board intact. He then cuts an angle on a rough mahogany neck blank at the right location. Then saws the neck on the guitar at the same angle, etc etc. He mentions that it's basically the same technique as making a new headstock, only in this case, he's connecting old to new, much closer to the body (scarf joint closer to the body than usual)

[docbass]

Hi,

I've done a few of these over the last couple of years. It actually isn't as hard as it appears. I've left the fingerboard on in all the cases. First, after removing the rod nut and washer, I'd take a small thin handsaw and cut on both sides of the truss rod to expose new wood. I try to avoid the nut area if possible, but have remade the peghead with a new surface for the nut too in a couple of cases.

I have a squared up block of wood ( basswood in my case) with a channel running down the middle of it. Using carpet tape on both sides of the routed slot on the basswood block, I stick 60-80 grit cloth backed abrasive paper. This gets used as a plane on the freshly cut mahogany surfaces. The truss rod rides in the slot of the block. I sand in only one direction, trying to keep the surface straight and not hollow in the middle.

The mahogany get leveled pretty easily if your saw cuts are right on. This leaves a raised area of wood in line with the truss rod. This raised portion gets removed with a chisel and scraper. When both sides of mahogany are flat, straight, and even, I make the peghead replacement part. I try and get the grain direction the same on the new piece of mahogany. This involves cutting out a triangle shaped pc. of wood. Using abrasives, a plane, or what ever you use to true up your wood, the triangle needs a slot on the glue side and adjustment rod cavity on the peghead side. I use a forstner bit, rounded gouge and exacto knife to make the adj. rod cavity. The slot for the rod can be made on a router table.

I dry fit the peghead and make adjustments until the mating surfaces are good to go. Using many small C clamps and angled cauls, The new wood gets clamped down. Finally the peghead gets shaped, drilled, a new overlay etc.

This repair is a good test of your abilities and makes for a satisfying feeling that you've saved a guitar from the trash bin and given it another lease on life. My first few weren't perfectly square to the neck, but not horribly off either. The more of these I've done, the faster and better they have become. It's one way to make your gibson collection larger without a major capital investment.

Marty

Wow, sounds feasible. I was wondering about my situation. Will I have sufficient surface to have a stable joint? I feel like there isn't enough surface and a scarf joint would help compensate for that.

Got any pictures of one of these repairs ?

Edited March 18, 2007 by docbass

[MartyM]

I'll post a couple of pics this afternoon. I think you'll have a long scarf joint. Which is actually better than a short one. You have more wood to wood contact. I have an EBO half done like that.

Marty

[docbass]

Fantastic, thanks!

[MartyM]

[MartyM]

[MartyM]

The EB-O ( 2nd from left in the above pic) was similar to your neck problem.

[docbass]

The EB-O ( 2nd from left in the above pic) was similar to your neck problem.

Wow, those turned out great! The only thing I'm not clear on is the thickness your new grafted section between the 3 fret and the nut slot. At the top of the joint, does the new wood it go all the way to the bottom of the fret board? I'm trying to visiualize how it looks from the side of the fret board. Could I ask for one more picture of the sides? Then I'll get out of your hair!!!

Edited March 18, 2007 by docbass

[MartyM]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/mm...tars/necks3.jpg

I think this is more useful.

[MartyM]

Part of my nut got erased in the picture, but I think you get the idea. It just depends on how much good wood you have left after you trim off the broken section. Most of them end right at the nut's outside edge. You can also use this technique on the tenon end of a neck if it gets busted off there. I bought a busted neck off of ebay with essentially no tenon and rebuilt one on to it. It has no resale value but was fun to do none the less.

Marty

[docbass]

Part of my nut got erased in the picture, but I think you get the idea. It just depends on how much good wood you have left after you trim off the broken section. Most of them end right at the nut's outside edge. You can also use this technique on the tenon end of a neck if it gets busted off there. I bought a busted neck off of ebay with essentially no tenon and rebuilt one on to it. It has no resale value but was fun to do none the less.

Marty

Thanks Marty. I see what you've done. I know a clean joint is critical with the tension put on a bass neck by the strings. I'm going to give your method a try. If it doesn't work out, I'll drop back and go to Plan B. Thanks again for your help and graphics!

[MartyM]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/mm...rs/necks3-1.jpg

I hope this is the new and improved one.