krazyderek Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Ok i'm not really the big paint expert, and i've read thru LGM's great threads above. Maybe i just can't remember, but what's the pro's and con's of applying several layers of paint be it sealer, colour, or clear with 15min flash time vs the typical 2-4 hour drying time you see written on the can. i have a couple ideas/reasons in mind just wanted to ask you guys... FIY Right now i'm just using water based sealer, stain & clear, all applied with a roller and brush (yes, laugh it up) instead of what most of you are proabably using which i'm assuming is oil based stuff, applied with a nice air spray gun. with the exception of you tung oiler's out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 IIRC, flash time is a term for the amount of time it takes for the solvent to evaporate, or "flash off", from a coat of solvent-based lacquer or enamel. When I used to shoot lacquer on cars, we'd shoot a coat, then wait 15 or 20 minutes (the flash time) before shooting another coat, so the first coat wouldn't sag. I'm not sure if it applies to water-based stuff, but I do know that enamels and automotive polys both have "recoat windows", a period of time after the paint has flashed when you can spray an additional coat without causing problems. If you wait too long, you have to wait until the paint cures completely before doing any more spraying. What are you using? Most paint companies are painfully explicit about what you can and can't do, at least with consumer products. And don't worry about using brushes and rollers, there's a guy here who consistenlty does excellent lacquer finishes with a roller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Ok i'm not really the big paint expert, and i've read thru LGM's great threads above. Maybe i just can't remember, but what's the pro's and con's of applying several layers of paint be it sealer, colour, or clear with 15min flash time vs the typical 2-4 hour drying time you see written on the can. i have a couple ideas/reasons in mind just wanted to ask you guys... Advantage - If you apply thin coats and allow them to flash, you can apply the equivalent of one heavy coat with reduced risk of runs. The 2 - 4 hour drying time is most likely based on a heavy application of the product - with the flash time you're simply applying that heavy coat, but in 3 light passes, allowing the finish to flash of between passes, and preventing horrible sanding to level later. FIY Right now i'm just using water based sealer, stain & clear, all applied with a roller and brush (yes, laugh it up) instead of what most of you are probably using which i'm assuming is oil based stuff, applied with a nice air spray gun. with the exception of you tung oiler's out there I doubt many people here are using oil based (not to be confused with an oil finish), unless we've got a hardcore of undercover fiddle makers. Most people are using nitro or acrylic. Which waterbased product are you applying? All the different varieties handle well, differently and so will yield different advice. I've used target PSL, which is waterbased and can be applied by brush (I sprayed). This is the same product Stew Mac sell as Colortone Waterbase guitar laquer. Finally, I'd be prepared for a world of misery if you want to apply a transparent coloured laquer with anything other than spray. Getting an even appearance will be *virtually* impossible. If you're going solid, that should be fine. You can also apply the stain to the wood with a rag and get decent results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted October 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 And don't worry about using brushes and rollers, there's a guy here who consistenlty does excellent lacquer finishes with a roller. ya i asked TSL about that when i first saw his work... right now i'm using -BEHR interior water-based acrylic sanding sealer -Minwax White Wash pickling stain, water based -Minwax Island blue water-based stain -Varathane Crystal clear waterborne diamond wood finish, gloss, outdoor, max UV protection i used fairly heavy 1st and 2nd coats of the sealer cause it flashed ( is that appropriate for water based) in about 5 mins to the touch, so i threw another coat on there then as the layers built up the flash time started getting up around 15-20 mins..... by the 6th or 7th coat it was bout 25 mins, keep in mind i've been told brushin/rolling goes on much thinner then spraying I did 2 guitars with the sealer last saturday, so i'm going to try wet sanding them at 220 later today, i'll keep my eye out for the rings, but hopefully i'll be able to start staining one white and putting varathane on the other one. thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted October 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 well i wet sanded them; the poplar body turned out perfect, sanded like a joy, no rings, or thin spots, but staining it kinda went down hill, it's probably going to take 5 or 6 coats of my stain to get it the colour i want, i'm going to retry that today or tomorow the basswood body on the other hand GRRRRR there were holes in the sealer almost the size of straw holes, and it was pretty thin, i didn't realize basswood soaked up so much more sealer then poplar, i'm going to have to reseal that guitar alll over again once those little holes dry out cause i discovered them while wet sanding or i might possibly just put on alot of clear coats.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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