Forming/bending Wooden Binding

[Prostheta]

My current build is a camphor burl topped mahogany Warwick vampyre-style instrument, and i've decided to bind it, body neck and headstock. As you do. After a couple of attempts at figured maple, and laminated ABS i've made a U-turn as I wasn't happy with the finish of either. Neither were perfect and I wasn't 100% happy with the way they were turning out. Out came the router and off came the existing binding.

I'm about to purchase a few runs of wooden binding and was wanting a bit more information on which woods are more "forgiving" when it comes to steaming and heat forming for tighter curves. Obviously fibres will only compress/expand to a certain point, but given a bit of care and patience I believe I can make it work.

Now, the woods i'm considering are:

- Cocobolo (i love the way it looks when polished up)

- Figured Walnut (ummm...splintery and easy to fracture like the flame maple I used first of all?)

- Ziricote

- Lacewood

I suspect the best of the four would be lacewood as a gut feeling - with a black purfling line this would probably suit the camphor burl nicely also....

[Prostheta]

The information attached to the bending iron sold by Stewmac seems good reference:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-0689.html

So Indian Rosewood is easy and Brazilian Rosewood difficult....I wonder how this figures with Cocobolo Rosewood! I think i'll thickness sand a piece of scrap cocobolo in the workshop and do some experimenting on it with the soldering iron....

[fryovanni]

A couple things that will help. First you need a good heat source. A bending pipe that is appropriate to the size of bends is a min. A soldering iron is going to give you sketchy results(the heat is too focused on a small area). To bend wood you need to heat it(as evenly as possible-that means all the way through, as well as along the area you are bending). A small heat source will heat a small part of the wood making it loosen up as it heats, but the areas on either side of that spot are going to remain un flexable(this will lead to wobbly bends or cracks). I personally use my side bending form and heat the full piece.

You need to get the wood up to temperature. Most woods will need to be between 270-320 degrees to soften it effectively. You soften the lets call it glue that holds the wood fibers. Much like hot hide glue. When it is hot enough it is quite easy to bend, and it can be re-shaped. After it cools the "glue" re-sets the fibers and makes the form permenant(it will not require tension to hold it in place). The use of water(steam) will transfer the heat more evenly throughout the wood. This even heating to proper temp is essential.

If you can achieve these temperatures you will have good luck with any wood.

Figured woods can be tricky because the grain runs out in relation to the surface. This means you need to be sure the heat is up before you bend(forcing the bend early will likely lead to cracking).

Some woods are prone to cracking period. Zircote earns it's title "Mexican crackwood". I count on CA repairs with this wood(splitting). Lacewoods similar to Mahogany for bending. Which is not bad, but needs to be to temp before bending. Cocobolo bends pretty well, but tends to distort if you use much water.

One tip- Don't try to bend thick binding. I try to avoid bending wood binding thicker than .06". Thicker woods are MUCH harder to heat evenly. Most guys that are bending sides for acoutstics with bent cutoways will bring the cutoway area down to about .065"(where as the rest of the side material may be .085"). Thickness is a HUGE factor in how well the wood will bend.

For binding. I like to under bend(slightly), because it is much easier to pull the wood to the side, but if it is overbent you will wind up with waves as the wood moves between curves.

I hope that helps. #1 is a good heat source(with proper surface area). Using spring steel to help contain and spread heat evenly can be a huge help(although it is hard to use much on binding with a pipe).

Peace,Rich

[Southpa]

I've got a some holly sitting here with some of it destined to be binding. I know heat would be required for softening and bending those curves but I'm not sure about the steaming process if you want to glue simultaneously. I would think a dry heat would be less risky when good adherence is required. I guess it would depend on what type of glue you use and whether or not you want to preform the binding strip and then glue it on. Maybe you could just toss the whole piece into the oven for 5 min. at 270-320 and preform. I'll be experimenting later.

Edited April 28, 2007 by Southpa

[erikbojerik]

For my acoustic I got myself a pair of the LMI heating blankets and make a bending form for the sides, and ended up taping the bindings to the sides and steamed/bent everything all at once (bindings were ~0.06 thickness). Let it cool to shape, and you are ready to glue it on. You could probably do the same for most of the curves on your vampire.

But as I already suggested....I think most of your corners are too tight for bending, and you'll have to miter. It is always easier to hide the miter joints with darker woods.

Edited April 29, 2007 by erikbojerik

[fryovanni]

I've got a some holly sitting here with some of it destined to be binding. I know heat would be required for softening and bending those curves but I'm not sure about the steaming process if you want to glue simultaneously. I would think a dry heat would be less risky when good adherence is required. I guess it would depend on what type of glue you use and whether or not you want to preform the binding strip and then glue it on. Maybe you could just toss the whole piece into the oven for 5 min. at 270-320 and preform. I'll be experimenting later.

You will have little luck bending and attaching wood binding simultaniously unless you have little or no bending to do(could be done with plastic, but I pre-bend whenever I can). Steam or adding water to the wood just helps get the wood evenly heated, if your heat source is able to deliver heat efficiently you can get away with not adding moisture.

For what it is worth this link may give you an idea of approximate temps needed for various types of wood-Link

Peace,Rich

[Prostheta]

Thanks everyone - I think that cocobolo seems to be the wood of choice, firstly because I love the stuff and being dark I should be able to get away with mitring as suggested. I'd better get ordering the wood then!

As much as i'd love to buy a bending iron, it seems a little overkill for this application. Perhaps a variable heat soldering iron will work given that the bends are fairly small and tight, and the more sweeping curves can be fluffed using perhaps an iron or something....total DIY nightmare on the horizon...!!

[Prostheta]

Argh....i've been having a crisis for the last half an hour as to whether or not to buy a bending iron....gah....!!

[fryovanni]

Argh....i've been having a crisis for the last half an hour as to whether or not to buy a bending iron....gah....!!

Dude, you can make a bending iron pretty easy. If you want you can use a torch or heating element(electric). As a matter of fact I think I remember Godin made a nifty little bending iron for his acoustic(let me find the topic).post #58

Peace,Rich

P.S. My own bending pipe is nothing more than a steel pipe with a charcoal starting element(electric)

Edited April 29, 2007 by fryovanni

[pmarlin]

I need to try bending wood binding again with a bending iron. I tried using a hair dryer after running the strips through hot water and ended in failure. everything bent fine all the way around the tele body until I reached the lower horn and it just snapped.

[fryovanni]

I need to try bending wood binding again with a bending iron. I tried using a hair dryer after running the strips through hot water and ended in failure. everything bent fine all the way around the tele body until I reached the lower horn and it just snapped.

Bending wood is all about getting the temp. up to the right range. There was a Taylor factory friday video posted some time ago. Where they show their side bending machines. They use no water at all. The heat source and speed(pressure) they apply is very well controlled. Pretty amazing machine, but really shows you what bending is all about. A hair dryer will not get you to the temp. needed. A heat gun on the other hand can get the job done. The key though is to be able to control and deliver the heat to the wood evenly without scortching it. This is where sealing the wood up in sheets of metal and a little extra moisture in the sealed sandwich(to get steam rolling) works pretty well. You will find that when the wood is up to temp. it will be very flexable(feels soft), and takes very little pressure to bend it to shape. If you really want to make your job a bit easier. Cut a form that is the same shape as your guitar so you can work with the heat and hold the bent binding in place while it cools. Then hit it a second time with heat to ensure the bend took. With a form you won't have to expose the body to the bending process. Good luck with the bending guys!

Peace,Rich

[erikbojerik]

I too made my own pipe from a charcoal heating element and some plumbing pipe. I messed with it for about 2 weeks, then splurged for the heating blankets. With the blankets I can make any shape form I like and bend over that.

[oz tradie]

I used the shank on a soldering iron for bending ebony and qld maple bindings to form.

It was great for all the small but tight curves.

cheers, Stu

[Prostheta]

That's what I was thinking of trying. Did you rethickness the binding first?

[oz tradie]

That's what I was thinking of trying. Did you rethickness the binding first?

I made my own binding at 6mm deep by 2mm wide. The ebony was cut from a sacrificial fretboard and the qld maple from

the edge of my figured body blank.

It worked a treat.

finished article

cheers, Stu