Change To The Rules Re: Logo Theft

[Supernova9]

Seeing as this has come up in other threads multiple times now, isn't it about time to have the rules of the forum adjusted to delete any posts containing logo'd instruments?

After all, as has been discussed, it would significantly help avoid the threat of legal action in case a guitar company were to find this place.

Mods/Admins, any comments?

Also, on a completely separate note, can the post flood control be shortened from 120 seconds to like 30 seconds please? It's really really annoying at the moment being that long, where it wouldn't give any more protection against spam than a 30 second delay, I would have thought it's more there to stop the automated spammers posting.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Supernova9

[Jaden]

forgive me, ive not read any of the other threads about this logo issue but... ive been a regular over at jemsite for some time and many many people there create there own custom guitars that look identical to popular signature models currently sold by Ibanez. Representatives of Ibanez regularly visit the site and answer various questions or make announcements, they also read much of what goes on there (the way I understand it) and they see that people are putting their logo on there own custom guitars.

they never mention it , I reckon that they couldnt give a monkeys to be honest. people say that imitation is the finest form of flattery....

in fact the only legal case(s) im aware of are the ones that are regularly cited by one Mr Edward Van Halen, who seems to think that he owns the patent on red and white stripes.... and continues to make himself popular by sueing his (ex) fans for making copies of his guitar.

however, making logo'd guitars on a large scale is a different matter, for personal use..... why not ? most people 'in the know' with guitars recognise a custom, even when its logo'd - no-one is going to create a perfect copy of an existing instrument and try to pass it off as real....

apart from the Chinese fakes that are flooding the market at this time... Chibanez etc..

[westhemann]

Flood control was enacted to stop the constant post upping from the younger members going "bump" and such all of the time .it has nothing to do with spam.

Before Kevan ever did it,he gave multiple warnings that were not heeded.

Logos are up to admin.It would be silly of of any companies to take legal action(I really don't even know if it is feasible),but we all know it is in bad taste,and every time it happens,the offender gets reamed.Other than that,I have no opinion.

But I will say that this topic has every sign of turning into the same stupid argument it always does...if this happens it will be locked.We have a pinned topic about this in solidbody

Jaden,I don't think anyone is worried about Ibanez...they do not have a history of that...Gibson though..

[marksound]

The skyrocketing vintage guitar market has created a flood of fakes and forgeries, especially on ebay. A lot of people can spot a fake a mile away, but many many more couldn't tell a bogus "vintage" guitar if you beat them over the head with it.

This has been discussed many times before.

[rhoads56]

I just had a "Fender" guitar in for a service. Purchased by a father, on the day his son was born. Bought it from a warehouse in California, as a gift to his son, just over eighteen years ago. It was an investment for the future, and a pretty cool gift. It has been locked up in storage since then, and the son only found out about it on his 18th birthday, a few weeks ago.

From a distance, it looked ok. In fact it WAS good quality. As soon as i grabbed the neck, i knew the shape wasnt anything Fender had ever cut. The logo was slightly wrong, the 'contour body' was the incorrect size. Made in USA on the front of the neck was oversized, and was also on the neck heel back. Trem rout at the back was slightly wrong, knobs where slightly wrong. The body was alder, with a clear sunburst, so i should have picked that straight away... as far as i know in that era they didnt do sunbursts on anything but swamp ash.

So, an 'investment' for the son, has turned into a piece of crap that isnt worth anything.

If it had a swamp ash veneer, and correct sized logos, and no 'made in USA' on the back of the neck, it would have been VERY hard to pick. I only first noticed, because of the neck shape. I service so many fenders, i noticed it straight away... but i bet 99% of guitarists wouldnt have a clue. If i didnt have the guts to call both the father and son back into the workshop a few days later, and explain the dubious points on the guitar, who would have? I can tell you, its a tough job doing that, something i dont do often, but still do too much.

Just because Ibanez, a company with a history of 'copies' and 'lawsuit models' doesnt appear to publicly care about a forum that has now got too big to stop (in regards to the NUMBER of people creating fakes, not actual forum size), doesnt mean every business is the same.

Gibson, Fender, Jackson, BCRich, (insert ANY name brand here) all have gobs more money than the owner of this site, and have the legal teams sitting around bored out of their brains. The companies are paying the legal team regardless if they sit there and do nothing, or chase up some small time player creating a fake or two of their brand. What would YOU do?

Maybe we can start making trem stop type 'things' and chuck a tremol-no word on them. Maybe even put them on ebay, """just to see what they would be worth, but i was going to pull the auction before it really sold... honest"""". Do you reckon Kevan wont mind...

[marksound]

I'm behind Perry 100% on this one. It's way too easy these days to fake a vintage piece, and we shouldn't go anywhere near putting up the appearance of approval.

[crafty]

+1 on Perry's comment.

From a legal perspective, he's absolutely right. I worked as in-house counsel for a while and he's hit the nail on the head with the boredom and digging aspect of the job. The threat of winning a case against a small-time builder or owner of a web forum is nothing compared to the initial threat of litigation. If a web forum is regularly trading logos and showing off guitars that have been built and are being sold with unlicensed logos, they're going after the forum, whether they can really win or not. All they'd have to do is send a C&D letter to Brian and the forum gets shut down tonight until all the offending material can be purged. With the sheer volume of threads and posts, Brian would be better off deleting everything and starting from scratch.

*Nobody* wants to see that happen.

If you've copied a logo, fine. Just don't tell anyone about it, please, and certainly don't brag about how much it grabbed on eBay!