fyb Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 A friend of mine asked me this the other day, and I really didn't know what to say. Is there a reason that rosewood boards are left unfinished? Do you think it'd be a bad idea to finish one? What about with an oil finish like TruOil? I've seen quite a few gunk-filled and discolored boards ... wouldn't a finish help this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I regularly oil my rosewood fingerboards but I don't consider this a "finish". They laquer Maple boards to protect them from moisture. Guess that they don't laquer rosewood fingerboards because there is no need to - rosewood is quite oily by itself and has good moisture resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 rosewood doesnt need finishing- but an occasional oil does help. If you want to add the hassle of finishing it then you can - a lot of rickenbackers have lacquered fretboards that are not maple The easier question is 'why are maple boards finished?' - because they can very nasty looking quite quickly if you dont finish them - although you can also have an unfinished maple board if you want to and are prepared for the mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Oh yeah, Maple reacts to the acids and salts in your skin and dets dark-grey. Actually this may be the main reason why they seal it with laquer. /OFF TOPIC: Hey, this is a great idea! Could I use some acid or a chemical to find out if the huge maple log I just got is really Maple and not some other species? I think maple "ebonizes" in a proces involving iron and vinegar acid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 While we are talking about finishing fretboards, I came up with a question last night that fits in here. Do you have to use a lacquer or poly finish on a maple fret board? Or can you use an oil finish. I love the feel of an oiled neck, but am making my first maple fretboard and did not know if I could oil the board as well. I also prefer the nice light color of natural maple versus the amber color of the tinted or aged lacquered boards. Would any of the oils be less likely to darken the woods color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 oiled bpards are great - but they will get grimy and dark grey quite quickly - for some its worth the aesthetic compromise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_labb Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 While we are talking about finishing fretboards, I came up with a question last night that fits in here. Do you have to use a lacquer or poly finish on a maple fret board? Or can you use an oil finish. I love the feel of an oiled neck, but am making my first maple fretboard and did not know if I could oil the board as well. I also prefer the nice light color of natural maple versus the amber color of the tinted or aged lacquered boards. Would any of the oils be less likely to darken the woods color? what about danish oil, it gives a oil feel and ease of finishing, but still gives a protective coat to the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ado Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Could I use some acid or a chemical to find out if the huge maple log I just got is really Maple and not some other species? I think maple "ebonizes" in a proces involving iron and vinegar acid. NARRD!! To the Lab!! haha jokes jokes sounds like a good idea.......why the suspission that its not?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 While we are talking about finishing fretboards, I came up with a question last night that fits in here. Do you have to use a lacquer or poly finish on a maple fret board? Or can you use an oil finish. I love the feel of an oiled neck, but am making my first maple fretboard and did not know if I could oil the board as well. I also prefer the nice light color of natural maple versus the amber color of the tinted or aged lacquered boards. Would any of the oils be less likely to darken the woods color? what about danish oil, it gives a oil feel and ease of finishing, but still gives a protective coat to the wood. but it doesnt give the complete seal that lacquer does - it will still go grey and grimy within a few years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Could I use some acid or a chemical to find out if the huge maple log I just got is really Maple and not some other species? I think maple "ebonizes" in a proces involving iron and vinegar acid. NARRD!! To the Lab!! haha jokes jokes sounds like a good idea.......why the suspission that its not?? Because a few people on the forum said that the photos looked like it was ash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ado Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 ahh k its a beast of a piece wat ever it is....i wouldnt be bothered if it turned out to be ash.......unless it a rip off im sure of the prices of ash compared to maple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 While we are talking about finishing fretboards, I came up with a question last night that fits in here. Do you have to use a lacquer or poly finish on a maple fret board? Or can you use an oil finish. I love the feel of an oiled neck, but am making my first maple fretboard and did not know if I could oil the board as well. I also prefer the nice light color of natural maple versus the amber color of the tinted or aged lacquered boards. Would any of the oils be less likely to darken the woods color? Capu, who built a very nice PRS style guitar with maple fretboard, said that he put down a few coats of S&S before applying the oil to prevent it from getting yucky. Alternatively, you could use Tru-oil. It is much tougher than traditional oils. It is much simpler to apply (no S&S) and you don't have to worry about it coloring the wood. There is an example here: http://reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=14369 CMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 The difference between oil and lacquer on a fretboard is that oil soaks in, whereas lacqer covers. So even with truoil you will get fingers and strings rubbing against the surface of the wood which will age it quite fast. On lacquered boards you have fingers and strings rubbing on lacquer untill it wears through and then starts to age quickly - but the lacquer will protect it and keep it from discolouring for much longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Wez, tru-oil is a little different from traditional oils, as I said. It is actually a hard finish and it builds up on the wood. CMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 thanks andy i am familiar with what it is and what it does, so yes - its certainly gonna give more protection than something like danish oil but i still think its gonna wear through and start to age much faster than a lacquered fretboard. Truoil finishes are generally much thinner than a lacquer finish. Just to clarify though - i dont like lacquered fretboards and prefer an oiled fretboard for the feel of it - who cares about the dirt anyway The fretless with a maple fretboard is a bad idea under tru-oil or lacquer. It looks nice in those photos (apart from the dodgy fretlines) but i wonder how it looked after a lot of heavy play. Bass strings will leave noticable marks in ebony quite quickly so maple isnt going to hold up well- for a fretless you really need much more protection like a coat of epoxy or just use acrylised maple. Did you ever make that violin? I am not familiar with how much wear violin strings cause on fretboards so that might be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) Thanks for the response Wez. It sounds like it would depend partly on how thick you apply the tru-oil. I couldn't say about tru-oil's long-term resistance to guitar strings, but I know a lot of people finish their maple necks with it and it seems pretty resistant to hand-oils and what not. I think I'll ask chucker what condition the fretboard is in now, maybe he can post a current pic. I've not done that violin yet. I'm trying to get a Tele project going right now which I'll start it after I get back from vacation, so I'll probably start the violin after I complete that. BTW, violin strings are pretty minimal on wear to the fretboard, so I think tru-oil will work fine in that scenario. CMA Edited July 12, 2007 by CrazyManAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I think I'll ask chucker what condition the fretboard is in now, maybe he can post a current pic. yeah, that would be good to see. Might also be worth pointing out to him that if he used black veneer for the fretlines they would have been much neater. As for the hand oil resistance of finishes. I see that as being only half the problem anyway, its the actual physical wear that is hardest to avoid and wound strings are always going to eat away at anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Oh yeah, Maple reacts to the acids and salts in your skin and dets dark-grey. Actually this may be the main reason why they seal it with laquer. /OFF TOPIC: Hey, this is a great idea! Could I use some acid or a chemical to find out if the huge maple log I just got is really Maple and not some other species? I think maple "ebonizes" in a proces involving iron and vinegar acid. I think you are thinking of tannin and tannic acid-link. I don't know about ebonizing, but you should be able to get a good dark dingy grey(think of an old fence post with a rusty nail in it, you can get that kinda staining going on). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I asked him and he said it still looks great. But he said that he doesn't play it as much as his fretted guit and that he uses flatwounds to reduce wear. Might have to wait awhile to see any appreciable difference... CMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Oh yeah, Maple reacts to the acids and salts in your skin and dets dark-grey. Actually this may be the main reason why they seal it with laquer. /OFF TOPIC: Hey, this is a great idea! Could I use some acid or a chemical to find out if the huge maple log I just got is really Maple and not some other species? I think maple "ebonizes" in a proces involving iron and vinegar acid. I think you are thinking of tannin and tannic acid-link. I don't know about ebonizing, but you should be able to get a good dark dingy grey(think of an old fence post with a rusty nail in it, you can get that kinda staining going on). Peace,Rich I was looking for a way to chemically test for Maple. Some magical chemical that would react in a specific way with Maple only. It turns out that the iron & vinegar solution would stain just about any kind of wood and I guess that tannines would stain any kind of wood as well. Maple or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherryburst Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 (edited) They laquer Maple boards to protect them from moisture. Nah, as WesV says, it's more of a need to keep the light-colored wood clean from fingermarks, a problem which dark colored woods don't really have. AFAIK, ebony is VERY touchy about moisture changes, but it doesn't usually get laquered. If you want to keep maple unfinished by giving it a dark color that wouldn't show fingermarks, would the same dark dyes used for "charcoal" quilt maple tops also work with a maple fingerboard? edit: like this stuff: http://www.warmoth.com/paint/paint.cfm?fuseaction=dye_black Edited July 13, 2007 by Cherryburst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 then you have the issue of wearing through the dyed maple to show lighter wood underneath. try to remember that maple isnt a traditional wood for fretboards. Leo fender used it because it was cheap. he changed to rosewood when he realised the lacquered boards where wearing through and looked untidy on TV - so the wear has been an issue since the conception of maple as a fretboard wood, its something most people live with quite happily If you like maple fretboards be prepared for the wear or invest in something like an acrylised board from gallery hardwoods. that should be ok - although the process hasnt been around long enough to be sure!! also remember that other woods will also wear, - but if you use a dark wood its less noticable and if its a harder wood it will take longer. I have repaired and refretted a few old ebony and wenge fretboards and the finger divots can stillbe quite big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I am leaning toward to Tru-Oil option simply because I prefer the feel of oil maple and am willing to deal with the wear. Since I am not gigging with this that should help reduce the wear factor. Would it be recommendable to perhaps re-oil the board every six months or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 re oil it when it needs it, might be evry 6 months might be less. With my experience with other oils on the backs of necks(danish oil in particular), i found that they needed re-oiling probabley twice in the first year, once the next year and then quite infrequently after that (depending on wood choice and all). Tru-oil should need less than that the most important factor is too leave the guitar for a day or two and give it a good buff after re-oiling. If you just buff the oil off straight away and re-string i have found the strings go dead real quick - gotta get rid off all the residue first!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 If you are going to use Tru-oil, here is a good tutorial: http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=12909 CMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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