Getting An Ultra Flat Black Finish After Hardcoating

[zyonsdream]

Okay, I used the search and didn't really find anything to help me.

I want to get an ultra flat black finish on my latest build and I have a quick question about hardcoating.

I'm using Krylon ultra flat black camofaluge paint and it looks killer on my guitar. However, when I use Satin polyurethane in a test piece it leaves more of a gloss than I'd like to have. It's not glossy but shiny

I'm experimenting with flat black acrylic but it seems like it will not be as flat as the ultra flat I already have sprayed on the guitar.

Is there a such thing of an ultra flat hardcoat or a way to get that really flat black look, almost like the hardcoat wasn't there?

[erikbojerik]

I need a reference point here....how many clear coat jobs have you done where you've level sanded and buffed out?

[zyonsdream]

I need a reference point here....how many clear coat jobs have you done where you've level sanded and buffed out?

I am accustomed to finishing with Nitro, acrylic and polyurethane, leveling, buffing and getting a nice high gloss finish. Getting a "flat" as in level finish is not a problem, just getting a flat (matt) finish at a level like Ultra flat black is baffling me.

I've sprayed the ultra flat black already but when I got done with my hard coated samples it just seemed to have too much shine even though I used a satin polyurethane. So the urethane adds more shine than what I want. I guess what I'm really after is the technique for a very flat finish without just being scratched up or a type of hardcoat that will be just as non reflective or flat/matt as the ultra flat black I am using.

[MiKro]

Satin is not flat, If you want flat then use flat. Otherwise anything else that is a clear coat will have a sheen. THUS it is not flat.

If you wax or buff a flat it will not be flat it will have a sheen THUS not FLAT!!!

ARE YOU GETTING THIS CONCEPT?

DOH!! SATIN is a flattened sheen, Semi Gloss is more glossy than Satin but not High Gloss. so FLAT IS JUST FLAT,

that means NO REFLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE FLATTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

[erikbojerik]

I'm not too familiar with the paints you're using, but I'd imagine they'd need a clear coat over it. When you level-sand, try stopping at 1000 grit instead of going all the way up and buffing. That'll be about as flat as you'll get it.

[zyonsdream]

DOH!! SATIN is a flattened sheen, Semi Gloss is more glossy than Satin but not High Gloss. so FLAT IS JUST FLAT,

that means NO REFLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE FLATTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

Well as my post said, I can't find any hardcoat that specifies it is "flat" and I'm looking for a product that is flat but thanks for your completely non useful smart ass answer. Since there was no actual useful information in your post, I can only assume you don't know of a product that will help me.

Edit: answered my own question. Krylon makes a Matte Finish product number 1311. It doesn't say if it's acrylic or urethane but I'm going to test it before using it. I'm sure a search of thier site would tell me exactly what it is but I want to make sure it's flat enough for my needs.

Edited April 26, 2008 by zyonsdream

[Prostheta]

Clearcoating over anything that is matte will create a uniform reflective surface which will reflect light instead of the underlying colour coat diffusing light. A bare matte finish will tend to gloss up over time through use or cleaning unless it's ultra-tough, or ultra-coarse like flatbed paint.

I always hated the matte/satin finishes on LTDs etc, because they soon develop glossier areas through friction against clothes, hands etc.

Matte is not an easy thing to achieve, let alone maintain on something which receives repetitive rubbing. I have a glossy section just above the pickups on my Schecter bass which made me decide to buff the rest of the instrument up to match *~%'\

Edited April 26, 2008 by Prostheta

[Mattia]

Most finish lines I've seen have gloss, satin and matt (or matte) options.

[MiKro]

DOH!! SATIN is a flattened sheen, Semi Gloss is more glossy than Satin but not High Gloss. so FLAT IS JUST FLAT,

that means NO REFLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE FLATTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

Well as my post said, I can't find any hardcoat that specifies it is "flat" and I'm looking for a product that is flat but thanks for your completely non useful smart ass answer. Since there was no actual useful information in your post, I can only assume you don't know of a product that will help me.

Edit: answered my own question. Krylon makes a Matte Finish product number 1311. It doesn't say if it's acrylic or urethane but I'm going to test it before using it. I'm sure a search of thier site would tell me exactly what it is but I want to make sure it's flat enough for my needs.

I apologize!! I was in a pi$$y mood and it was meant to be a smart A$$ answer. Now as far as a product. The closest you will find to a true flat in a clear coat, is what you have most likely already found, a matte finish. Flat paints are designed to be non reflective when cured, any attempt to sand or otherwise add protective finishes, defeat the purpose of the original design of the paint. Most flat paints do not look smooth for the reason that this introduces multiple minuscule facets that reflect or refract light in many directions ( that's in lay mans terms ). Thus the pigment and additives cause this effect and the pigments being non reflective achieve the flat look. The same with Satins, mattes, and semi gloss. They have differing degrees of additives to achieve the effect they produce. That's why when you open a can of clear satin it looks milky.

Again my apologies for my smart ass attitude. I wish you well on your journey of the Flat finish.

MK

edited to add: If you are using spray equipment, you might consider adding Transtint Black to your clear matte finish, it may help keep the depth of the clear down to a minimum and enhance the matte effect. Just a suggestion.

Edited April 26, 2008 by MiKro