fookgub Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) Let me preface this with a little explanation of some terms I want to use. This stuff is very subjective, so it's nice to have a common starting point regarding terminology. Having played with more than a few pickups, I've found that practically all of the Strat-style pickups (by this I mean single coil pickups with individual polepieces and coil geometries similar to true Strat pickups) I've used have a recognizably "Strat" character. That is, regardless of the actual frequency response of the pickup, there is something about the sound that makes me say "that sounds like a Strat pickup," regardless of the magnet type or number of windings. I like to call this the "voice" of the pickup. Now, that doesn't mean that all Strat-style pickups sound the same. I've found that the higher output pickups, due the the increased inductance they usually have, tend to sound darker, having a lot more midrange and less treble. I like the bright sound of vintage-style Strat pickups, and, for lack of a better term, I'll just call that abundant treble "chime." I'm planning a SSH guitar, and, like many people, I want to have modern hard rock and vintage tones from the same guitar. My beater guitar is a SHH configuration with series/parallel switches for the humbuckers. It's got a nice variety of tones, with heavy rock sounds in series mode, and brighter/twangier tones in parallel mode. But the humbuckers don't have the Strat voice that I'm looking for. I'm planning to use a high output bridge humbucker in my new SSH guitar. This is essential to getting the kind of hard rock tones I like. Lower output humbuckers have too much treble and not enough midrange for my sound. The problem is finding single coil pickups that can balance with the hot humbucker. All the ones I've tried are too dark sounding, totally lacking the chime I want. So, based on what I learned with my beater guitar, I had an idea. What if I use high output dual-rail Strat-size humbuckers (ala DiMarzio Chopper or SD Hot Rails) with series/parallel switches? The hope is that these pickups would be a good match tonally and with regard to output for the bridge humbucker when wired in series, but would sound nice and chimey in parallel mode. Has anyone tried this? Do the dual-rail pickups retain the Strat voice, and are they indeed chimey when wired in parallel? Any comments are welcome. Edited December 22, 2008 by fookgub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted December 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 Did a little reading on TDPRI today, and it looks like some of the guys over there are running dual rail pickups in parallel. Opinions are generally positive enough for an experiment, I'd say. So, unless anyone's got anything to add here, I'm going to buy myself a cheap dual rail after the holidays and try it out in my beater guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Here is my strat setup. It should be noted this is a mahogany body strat, so it will be a little darker than the average strat. Bridge: Full size SD JB Middle: SD Hot Rails Bridge: SD Vintage Rails The strat has S-1 switching, which works like this. S-1 Switch Up: Position 1. Full Bridge Humbucking Pickup with Coils in Series (Lead Tone Control). Position 2. Middle Pickup and Inside Coil of Bridge Humbucking Pickup in Parallel (Lead Tone Control). Position 3. Middle Pickup (Lead Tone Control). Position 4. Neck and Middle Pickup in Parallel (Lead and Rhythm Tone Controls). Position 5. Neck Pickup (Rhythm Tone Control). S-1 Switch Down: Position 1. Full Bridge Humbucking Pickup with Coils in Series (Lead Tone Control). Position 2. Full Bridge Humbucking Pickup with Coils in Series, in Parallel with Neck Pickup (Lead and Rhythm Tone Controls). Position 3. Full Bridge Humbucking Pickup with Coils in Series, in Parallel with Neck and Middle Pickups that are Paired in Series (Lead and Rhythm Tone Controls). Position 4. Inside Coil of Bridge Pickup Paired in Series with Neck Pickup, in Parallel with Middle Pickup (Lead and Rhythm Tone Controls). Position 5. Middle Pickup in Series with Neck Pickup (Rhythm Tone Control). Favorites Position 1, S-1 switch does nothing, sounds boosted mids and highs for rock or metal tones. Not strat-y, more SG'ish. Position 5, S-1 up, very vintage, full-bodied with emphasis on low-mids, not high output. S-1 Down, very strat'y bell-like tone which I would nmot expect from this posion. My other strat (Am Std.) has a SD Hot Rails in the Bridge and a SD Vintage Rails in the Neck (Middle is stock Fender). I love the Viontage rails in the neck, but the Hot Rails is too much for the Bridge. It overemphasized the "chimelike" tones and is not useable by itself, in my opinion. It needs to be darkened by including something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 Hi Donovan... Sounds like a nice pair of guitars there. I am working on ...or not... my own mahognay strat but it got a little out of hand...see the thread LINK This guitar has an SD JB full HB in the bridge and a pair of fender noiseless JB stacked singles. It has tricky controls that I made myself that someone dubbed "uber-switches" over at guitar nuts 2. There are three push pull pots with another twist base function that is the equivalent of 3 S1's. It also has a 4p5t super switch selector. my proposal is to have these functions... Mode switch down A. Bridge B. Bridge + Middle C. Bridge + Neck D. Middle + Neck E. Neck Mode switch up A. Bridge + Middle + Neck B. Bridge * Middle C. Bridge * Neck D. Middle * Neck E. Bridge * Middle * Neck + being parallel and * being series. there are about 27 different combinations and a few non-typical for a strat selections (the middle pickup can't be selected on it's own you might notice in favour of neck and bridge combos). In addition will be an HB splitter and possibly a phase switch. It also has a piezo in the neck socket...but we will see how that goes...and a latest version sustainer coil hidden in the neck pickup...and a few other surprises...if I can ever bring myself back to the challenge of finishing the wiring in the thing! As you have asked about the sustainer...here is a pick of the converted neck pickup for this guitar... However...it wouldn't fit into a rail pickup.... .... Personally, I am not a fan of rail or mini HB's...I have heard the SD JB Jnr is quite credible if you want to get a more HB sound from the guitar but chime and quack do tend to be what strats are about to at least some extent. Generally, I don't think fenders are the best platform for a warm sound but obviously it works for some...an LP will get you more into that area. I have not heard an S-1 strat with rails either... ... As to the question of parallel...you should get less output and a cleaner tone in parallel...they still wont sound like single coils or a classic strat...but it may be worth while. One of the problems with mini HB's and rails are that they have coils often finely wound, overwound and very close together which marginalizes some of the effects associated with full sized HB's a bit...the sound bad split for instance typically. But, for the noise canceling qualities and if you like the sound, they may be the best for you and taming them down may be a good option by paralleling them and keeping the noise canceling qualities that make them an attractive option... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 i quite often like to fit parallel/single/series mini switches when i am doing single pickup guitars... tbh i am never happy with the single coil sounds compared with a real single coil but i do like having 3 power settings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 If you want true strat tone, you need to have a true strat pickup, just like you said from the beginning. The sound comes from the combination of magnet size, magnet strength, shape of the magnetic field, the coil shape and the turn count for the coil. Change any of those parameters and the pickup will start to deviate away from the strat sound. Maybe not much, but still. If you need higher output you will need to add turn count, boosting mid and loosing chime, or use stronger magnets, boosting treble with AlNiCo 8 magnets, or boosting the treble even more if you can find correct sized ceramic magnets, thus lowering the inductance very much. So if you want strat sound you will have to stick with some type of strat pickup. My suggestion, a bit unorthodox maybe, is to use pickups you like and add an on board preamp to balance the pickups. I see no other way around the physics. I have toyed with some ideas for a higher output strat pickup with retained strat sound but up until now I haven't got around to test them. Too many other projects going on. And customers! Shouldn't complain when business is good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 If you want true strat tone, you need to have a true strat pickup, just like you said from the beginning. I second that. Paralleling multiple coils does NOT sound like a Strat pickup. Personally, if I wanted Strat sounds, I would use 3 Strat pickups, no humbucker. The bridge pickup is just as important as the others--but that's just me. Perhaps this isn't an option if you need the high output to drive your pedal/amp/whatever... but you could just lower the bridge humbucker away from the strings until the output is balanced with the other pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Personally, I am not a fan of rail or mini HB's...I have heard the SD JB Jnr is quite credible if you want to get a more HB sound from the guitar but chime and quack do tend to be what strats are about to at least some extent. Generally, I don't think fenders are the best platform for a warm sound but obviously it works for some...an LP will get you more into that area. I have not heard an S-1 strat with rails either... Agree about mini HB's with regard to the SD Hot Rails and Duckbucker. I have not played any other mfr's mini, but my middle position Hot Rails (not really that "hot") serves as a buffer for the JB and VR. Now the Vintage Rails... that's another story. You ought to get your hands on one! The beauty is with the warm pickup, it is just right... not very LP at all; still a strat , but easier/better on the ears. The SD Vintage Rails for the neck position is by far my favorite and I would recommend it to anyone. I've gotten numerous positive comments and questions from other players about that pickup. Whether you are a strat-i-ness fan or not, it is well worth the investment. It is very sweet and rounded sounding clean and then surprisingly, it can hit some strong harmonics with a distortion channel... something I found sadly lacking in the the stock Fender pickups, which I honestly could not even stand to play clean. Now that I think about it, the VR does take out the strat-i-ness (after all that is the definition) to some extent, BUT, this does not have to be a bad thing. I have always found the stock "shimmering" highs a little much. I guess maybe I'm a bit strange because I have always loved the looks, nostalgia, and ergonomics of the strat, but have always felt like they are all just a bit wrong out of the gate in some areas... sound needs changing immediately... and locking tuners and LSR nut are the 1st necessity since they have a synergistic effect on playability, even over pickups for me. If I ever have another go on my old SSS strat (or a new one), I would not hesitate to put VR's all the way around. Then again, all these decisions occured way before I was aware this community even exists, so now I am wondering if some low $ wiring, switching, or cap/resistor changeouts might have achieved the same results. As such, take my opinion as you may or as my badge calls it... Noob. P.S. Your noiseless driver is sweetly stealth. Any sound bytes to go with that? Indeed, I will miss my neck pickup when I DO get a sustainer permanently installed... that's one of those sad, but strangely alluring tradeoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 No...no specific sound bytes as the nightmare strat is still that...hehehe...when it is rewired I will put something up. It has been fully tested over some time and took months to develop...whether it is ever for sale, I'm still not sure...that was the original intention...so watch these spaces... (PS...this pickup actually lights up subtly when the sustainer is on ) I have been very impressed by these high powered JB stacked Noiseless Fender designs...as well as the SCn that I used on the tele. There are a range of interesting hb designs around now... I am sure the vintage rails sounds good...but your description is kind of the opposite of "strat-i-ness", but if that is what you want, go for it. Putting a full HB on a strat always seems like a compromise...on mine with an SD HB and two higher output staked pickups I am hoping for a more contemporary sound. Of course...the strat is a fabulously versatile and "ergonomic" guitar...an LSR and locking tuners make it even better and I have no tuning problems on the thing even without a roller nut. However...there is something really beautiful about the single coil strat pickups and nothing else really makes that sound. Despite the delicate chimyness, lets not forget the massive sound someone like hendrix got out his stock CBS strats before people even had a choice of different and high powered pickup options. Still...no need to play a gibson derivitive these days to get that rounder sound and a strat for some reason always sounds like a strat, and a tele like a tele... Ahh...that's what I was going to mention...instead of removing the neck pickup for a sustainer...look at the tele driver I built for my most recent project linked below...many strats will have enough room to keep your pickups and add the sustainer. I know you are experimenting with rewinding a pickup...but once you have that working and get the hang of the project....you could consider something like that as an alternative pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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