John Abbett Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Hi guys. I've built a few copies from plans on the net. I know they violate copywrite. Selling them would certainly be bad. I did it so I could learn how to do standard builds and what works and doesn't. But as I'm looking at building my own designs, I find that the hollowbodies that I want to make all look similar to the 335 or single cutaways. Does anyone know the rules for not violating copywrite? If I take a set of plans and modify them, does that violate copywrite? Do I have to start with a blank sheet and draw something up so I'm not using anything from anyone else? Designing my own headstock is a start, and the body shapes I like are slightly smaller then the standard 335.. Does using a Gibson fingerboard length make a diffrerence? I'm not a Fender guy, but I see a lot of guitars out there that have basically the same rought shape. Ibanez espeically. How do they get away with being so simliar to Fender? Anyway, does anyone have any input on this? -John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Copyright only applies to written material (books, electronic media, music, etc.). Patent and trademark apply to guitars. I think there's a big thread floating around here somewhere on this. As a small builder, I really wouldn't worry about it too much if what you're building isn't an all-out duplicate of another design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadovfor Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 John, I think Rick is right ... it's design patents and trademarks that you have to watch out for ... although your essential concern is correct. But from my memory the key issue you need to look into is headstock shape, not bodies. And as for finger-board length, I'd be amazed if you had issues there ... particularly given that all companies tend to be within an inch of 25" and fret placement is purely a function of scale length. I know that Fender has taken action against other manufacturers, including cease and desist orders, to prevent violation of the strat headstock design. I don't ever recall hearing anything about body shape though and I think you're a lot safer there. I was recently buying a few bits and pieces from Gilet Guitars here in Sydney and he had a bunch of necks with paddle headstocks to avoid compromising Fender design patents ... but he had pre-made bodies that were traditional shapes. I'm sure a quick search of the net would give you enough guidance. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Body shape is most certainly also covered, as PRS found out when they were sued by Gibson for their Single Cut model.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 PRS is also a big enough company to take a chunk out of Gibson's sales. I highly doubt a company would care much less sue a small builder. I don't know how successful that lawsuit was anyhow. And there is always a chance with headstock design that you will recreate a headstock without realizing it. The head of my bass looks like a PRS. I never saw a PRS until after my bass was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think companies and independent luthiers will only take notice if you're blatantly making copies of their instruments. Like, if you made a stratocaster and actually put fender's logo on it, or if you make a Ken Lawrence style headstock on it and sell it to people as a "Ken Lawrence (copy)" One thing I've noticed about bodies is that if you make them slightly different, then you can get away with it. That's how ESP got away with their pointy explorers when Gibson sued them, and how ESP got away with their modified headstocks after Jackson sewed them. Ibanez's RG and S style guitars are basically strat style with pointier or more contoured edges. I guess it all depends on how offended someone gets and how far they're willing to go to get you to change stuff. Ormsby doesn't seem to mind people doing multiscale guitars as long as they don't call them "Multiscale" with a little TM sign after it I guess. *shrugs* Gene Simmons bought the rights to the word "it," so you may have to pay him if you decide to call your instrument "it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 If you're 10% different, you're good. Defining a "10% difference" that will stand up in court, however, is probably more difficult than building the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadovfor Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 PRS is also a big enough company to take a chunk out of Gibson's sales. I highly doubt a company would care much less sue a small builder. It doesn't cost a big builder much to send a cease and desist letter ... but that letter will cause a large load of porridge like substance in the trousers of a small or hobby builder. That said ... it's not entirely clear whether John intends to set up a commercial enterprise or not. If you have ambitions on going commercial John, then do a little more homework on design patents and trademarks. But if you're only building for yourself (and family and friends) then you're pretty safe to copy designs ... but copying logos is bad karma at any level. Parodies or "tributes" are a different matter ... I'm currently building a "tribute" guitar for one of my sons that is pretty much a straight copy of Alexi Laiho's ESP with some small differences. But the logo will very clearly be my son's name ... so not even a vague attempt at passing it off as a genuine ESP. I'm sure Perry can add some valuable (and more accurate) insights to this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Abbett Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thanks for chiming in. It sounds like intent has a lot to do with it. I intend to make guitars that are not exact copies (They end up not exact even if I try to make copies - ha! ) . I'm not going commercial or mass producing.. Just two or three a year, but they are starting to pile up. My little music room has guitars of varying quality hanging all over. I've started changing things, to get a feel for what I like. Head stock designs are a little different on each one, and the body shape is slightly changed. The thing is, I don't think you can improve much on the 335 body shape. It's pretty much right on the mark as far as I'm concerned. I do change the F-Holes to my own design now. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Abbett Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Oh one more big difference, my 335 type guitars are solid wood, no laminate.. That's a pretty big difference. -John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 The difference in the top, while a big engineering change, is minor in the eyes of the patent lawyers. They look at your designs as "If you walk into a store, can you easily confuse the two brands by looking at them on the wall"? If they even say maybe, it can be enough for them to get their undies in a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck_Chill-Out Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 On an personal note, my first build that I am doing I am modeling after Campbell American's Transitone. I e-mailed them for permission to copy their guitar and actually received permission from the President of the company! Of course, he said that if I tried to sell it, the lawyers would be in touch with me. Since I have been building it, the design has changed some and it does not look like the original anyway . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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