RestorationAD Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I have been running into a lot of tearout issues lately when shaping my bodies. Yes I try to keep it under 1/8" but sometimes it is hard and I need to cut 1/4", the problem happens when it grabs. Part of my problem is my template bit is a 5/8 x 1" and my router is a bit under powered, Craftsman 1/2 Hp. I am going to buy a 5/8" x 1/2" to help for now and shape in 2 passes. But I want opinions on a long term solution. I have some ideas from previous discussions... 1 - Triflute 2" Down Shear Router bit and mount my templates on top of the blanks. The question becomes do I upgrade my router to a higher horsepower? 2 - Shaper Table from Grizzly 3/4 Hp Grizzly Shaper The problem is the cutters are expensive and I can not find a template bearing on Grizzly.com... I am sure they have them 3 - Small Shaper Table from Grizzly Mini Grizzly Shaper Not sure if this is really even an option.... Any other opinions are welcome Edited February 16, 2009 by RestorationAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Craftsman 1/2 Hp I think that sums it up for the major issue you have. 1 3/4 Hp should be a minimum selection for a main router. 1. pattern bit, top mounted template. 2. best bit you can buy WHITESIDE 3. You have to route left to right (sorry if this is basics not that you are not doing this) 4. Thicker edged work 1/4" vs 1/8" require several passes don't meet the temple until you have the bulk of the material removed or you will burn up the bit. This is sell of an issue with a better bit. 5. there are certain areas of the body that naturally tear out, make sure you understand what areas these are. Using a reverse cutting action called climb cutting you many be able to eliminate all tear out. Look for several videos on You Tube about binding machines, they cover the areas where you would find tearout. 6. you may not want to use the full cut of the bit. several passes at different depths may help. This depends on your setup of course. OK new router and new bit will be the best choice to make a difference. A shaper is not as handy a tool and you need better router for other jobs anyway. The bigger the bit and shaft the better 1/2" shaft. I suggest also getting a laminate trimming bit as well as you may need to flip your work and use the edge of the body as a guide after the pattern bit. Whiteside bits seem expensive until you use one, then you will never go back. Pick a name brand router (pro brand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Craftsman 1/2 Hp I think that sums it up for the major issue you have. 1 3/4 Hp should be a minimum selection for a main router. That is what I thought too. Thank you for the confirmation. 1. pattern bit, top mounted template. So this was my next step... after a better router. I will definetly need a nice 1/2" shaft router. I have a Firestorm plunge 1 3/4 HP router but it makes a bad table router. If I mount it upsidedown it will be hard to set the depth. 2. best bit you can buy WHITESIDE Got them 3. You have to route left to right (sorry if this is basics not that you are not doing this) I do. I think it was the low HP and too much material... 4. Thicker edged work 1/4" vs 1/8" require several passes don't meet the temple until you have the bulk of the material removed or you will burn up the bit. This is sell of an issue with a better bit. I try this but sometimes it gets you... the low HP router has a tendancy to grab. So more power will help 5. there are certain areas of the body that naturally tear out, make sure you understand what areas these are. Using a reverse cutting action called climb cutting you many be able to eliminate all tear out. Look for several videos on You Tube about binding machines, they cover the areas where you would find tearout. Got it. 6. you may not want to use the full cut of the bit. several passes at different depths may help. This depends on your setup of course. Correcting this with shorter template bit until I can afford new router OK new router and new bit will be the best choice to make a difference. A shaper is not as handy a tool and you need better router for other jobs anyway. The bigger the bit and shaft the better 1/2" shaft. I suggest also getting a laminate trimming bit as well as you may need to flip your work and use the edge of the body as a guide after the pattern bit. Whiteside bits seem expensive until you use one, then you will never go back. Pick a name brand router (pro brand) That is good to know about the shaper. The expense of a new router is in between the 2 shapers I listed. But it looks like I am low on HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 So the 2408 from routerbits.com should be what I need right? Part Number Cutting Diameter Cutting Length Overall Length Bearing Number Price 2408 1/2" 2" 4" B3 $ 21.44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Please note - 99% of router accidents happen either routing endgrain or when climb cutting. Make sure you know where to place your fingers so that if the bit grabs the piece, your fingers won't be dragged into the bit. You won't have time to react... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 So the 2408 from router bits.com should be what I need right? Part Number Cutting Diameter Cutting Length Overall Length Bearing Number Price 2408 1/2" 2" 4" B3 $ 21.44 The 2408 is the correct size. But I would look at the 2580 or the 3023 3/4" flush and template bit (whiteside). Because the template bit is so long you cannot use it for routing pickup or electronic cavities (at least most tasks). The additional heft and diameter (increased speed) makes these a better choice for pattern work. They also have a 1 1/8 diameter template bit but I have never tried that size, WoW. Probably better for production routing tasks. Their are plus and minus aspects about working from either side (pattern location)and with either bit. With any template bit you loose between 1/4" or 1/2 due to your template unlike the trim bit. But I prefer this bit for some reason? Using a flush trim with the pattern on the bottom is easier if you don't overhang your work from a table or work with a router table. Template thickness should also be taken into consideration. If its a thin pattern then a pattern bit is easier to keep aligned on the patterns edge as it is closer to the chuck and less likely to chatter off the pattern.. If I can I hog it off in one shot I do it. Light passes full cut. Firestorm and Sears are both low end routers. I saw a Porter cable on sale on amazon for under $100 #690. Doesn't plunge with out the extra base but its a good choice. I doubt you can find a deceit shaper anywhere close to that price. Also cheap shapers do not mean great results. Same as cheap routers. Make sure you know where to place your fingers so that if the bit grabs the piece, your fingers won't be dragged into the bit. I don't look at those gory accident posts. Even thinking about this makes me feel queezy. If you are not routing with two hands on the top using one of these bits, then OH MY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Please note - 99% of router accidents happen either routing endgrain or when climb cutting. Make sure you know where to place your fingers so that if the bit grabs the piece, your fingers won't be dragged into the bit. You won't have time to react... Hate those posts too. But they remind me to be careful all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I also avoid the gory accident pics...I think some people revel in them a bit much,and I doubt a gory picture helps remind a guitarist to watch his/her fingers...I know for me that is #1 priority...no use building a guitar you can't play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yup, it doesn't have to come from a router either. Way back in 1981 I worked at a steel fab shop making electrical panels. I can still remember the noise one of my co-workers made when he got the tip of his pinky crushed in a 70 ton brake press. Since then I've had a healthy respect for whatever I am doing and where ever I put my hands. All present and still acounted for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Definatly get a better router. I would have a look round ebay for them, I(well... my dad) got an Elu Mof 177/00 (amazing router) off ebay for £60. You just have to look round a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ordered the 1/2 in collet larger bits for template work Going to buy this router tomorrow unless I find a better deal somewhere. Craftsman Professional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ordered the 1/2 in collet larger bits for template work Going to buy this router tomorrow unless I find a better deal somewhere. Craftsman Professional Ever think about reconditioned tools. Here is a link to a Rigid fixed base/ plunge router. Only $20 more than the craftsman fixed base. .My brother owns an air conditioning business and he's bought reconditioned tools. He has had good luck . http://www.cpoprotools.com/products/zrr29301.html Here is a review.. http://benchmark.20m.com/reviews/RidgidR29...rKitReview.html http://woodworking.about.com/od/routers/gr...idRouterKit.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks for the links. I tend to dislike rigid tools and do not purchase them. Here is a good review. Crafstman Red Review The Craftsman is fine for what I will use it for. It will never leave the router table as I have a nice smaller router and a big plunge that is ok. I can get the Porter Cable for 40 more dollars if I really wanted but I fail to see how it will help. I take really good care of my tools and have great luck with cheaper tools. Heck I have a Central Machinery 14" Bandsaw that was thrown away... I fixed the table and tuned it up with new blade and some nice guide blocks and it has been awesome. I will replace it at some point but not until there is a need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thanks for the links. I tend to dislike rigid tools and do not purchase them. Here is a good review. Crafstman Red Review The Craftsman is fine for what I will use it for. It will never leave the router table as I have a nice smaller router and a big plunge that is ok. I can get the Porter Cable for 40 more dollars if I really wanted but I fail to see how it will help. I take really good care of my tools and have great luck with cheaper tools. Heck I have a Central Machinery 14" Bandsaw that was thrown away... I fixed the table and tuned it up with new blade and some nice guide blocks and it has been awesome. I will replace it at some point but not until there is a need. Great go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I did say the Porter Cable 690 (New) is on sale at Amazon for less than that that Sears model (UGH). I though your problem was cheap routers. Seems like buying another Sears is masochistic. Just because they put a Pro label on it and jack up the price does not make it any better than any other sears brand router. When you have Amazon ship it for free and don't pay taxes your cost is probably $30 less than the Sears. Yes you have to wait a week for delivery in most cases. Next time you post no one will say buy a new router when you say you own a Porter Cable 690. Porter Cable Now even though you are loosing 3/4hp the 690 router will do the job. It is a production router. Now for a few dollars more than the Sears they also sell a reconditioned Porter Cable 892R 2 1/4 HP for $160 and the Bosch 1617EVS also 2 1/4 for the same price. Add tax to the Sears purchase and you are close just add $25. Also the Hitachi M12VC 2 1/4hp at $122 is cheaper even though I have never owned this brand before. You have many choices, reconditioned tools are a great buy as 101 says, I have several including a 3 1/4 Hp Dewalt plunge I bought 15 years ago and it is still going strong as well as a 12" sliding saw also from Dewalt. If you don't use it 8hrs a day reconditioned tools are just fine and a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) Ok. I bought the Porter Cable. Why bother asking if you don't follow others advice. Thanks everyone for chiming in. Here is to safe happy routing... with less tearout Edited February 20, 2009 by RestorationAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Ok. I bought the Porter Cable. Why bother asking if you don't follow others advice. Thanks everyone for chiming in. Here is to safe happy routing... with less tearout Yeah, success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 D4mn that is a nice router. Worth every penny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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