Narcissism Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Hi I'm posting to help others avoid my mistake. 34" doesn't actually mean 34". In actuality it means just a little over 34", or roughly 34". What I did was I measured to +-34". So now while i'm intonating my bridge on the new bass, i'm finding that it doesn't want to intonate properly because the strings aren't long enough. The neck I have is most definately a 34" scale, and same goes for all of my other 34" scale basses that I have. However, while measuring those same basses, i've come up with results that are beyond 34" On my Ibanez GSR100 with proper intonation: From Nutface to bridge saddle on my high G, the length of the string is 34 1/8" From Nutface to bridge saddle on my low E, the scale length of the string is 34 3/8" Just thought I'd let everyone know in case you're working with prefabricated necks. I'm gonna go move my bridge 3/8" back now. Lesson learned *note* this may not apply to all guitars. If you're building a true 34" scale and you're using the stewmac fret calculator, it may turn out right. This post is covering prefabricated necks from Carvin, Rogue, Yamaha, and two Ibanez basses. For those who know more about this, feel free to add your input as I'm very interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I think that is because of string guage...the thicker the string,the longer the intonation length I think. I say I think because I know nothing of intonating basses,and I always use lights on my guitars,but I HEARD that going up gauges require the saddles be moved back... Basses have really thick strings...so logic tells me that is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I just went to the fret calculator, and the 12th fret is exactly 17" away from the nutface, and the 24th fret is in fact 25.5". These results are from a 34" scale with 24 frets entered in. I use 11s on my guitars, so I'll check up on that, assuming you're using something like 8s or 9s... Actually scratch that. My guitar's got floyd bridge post issues, so it wouldn't be accurate... and those bridge post issues may have something to do with the 5 springs on the spring claw and the heavy guage strings... Aside from floyd rose issues, I'm assuming what you're saying is fact, rather than experience, since I know you (wes) don't say anything unless you know something; which I appreciate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 On every bass I've had, I've needed to move the saddles of the lower strings quite a bit back when intonating. Particularly anything set up with higher action. That's why bass bridges usually have much more travel in the saddles than guitars. When I place my bridges, I put the 34" in line with the saddles at their absolute most forward position, leaving myself plenty of intonation room. (I learned this the hard way the first time, where I placed my bridge with the 34" length with the saddles at the middle position, thinking I would leave myself room to move either direction. You don't need movement forward unless something has gone wrong, but not having enough room to move back can ruin any attempts at intonation.) My 25" scale guitar's low E string isn't 25" inches anymore either, because I moved the saddle so it would intonate. The scale length is always a measurement of the string lenght before intonation - if you weren't fretting the string (playing slide for instance) you wouldn't need to move the saddles and could leave it at this length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The scale length is always a measurement of the string lenght before intonation Someone should like... write that down somewhere... I'm assuming its in that book that everyone here keeps talking about that I should buy and read. I'm going to paste that in the "what mistakes to avoid" thread if you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I guess none of you have heard of "****COMPENSATION****" Perfectly normal. Even a shorter guitar scale, the high E will be a little farther than the actual scale length, and the bass E will be significantly farther back. This is why MOST production guitars with a TOM bridge is angled so the low E is farther back than the high E. The actual distance beyond scale length does depend on string gauge, string height and scale length. The longer the scale, the farther the bridge beyond scale. The higher the action, the farther... and the bigger the string, the farther- though generally bigger strings also mean higher action.... This is NOT an epiphany- most of us already knew this. (I would hope) I dont know if it's really worthy of the "mistakes to avoid thread- Havent you ever seen a catalog with a guitar with an angled Tunomatic and wonder *WHY*? Now you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I guess none of you have heard of "****COMPENSATION****" Oh thank you for being here to point out the obvious by using one word to state exactly what was already said by the mere mention of a word that answers nothing by itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 i think it can be easy to underestimate the amount of compensation bass strings need if you havnt built one before. I know my first one only just intonated on the low E!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) This is NOT an epiphany- most of us already knew this. (I would hope) I dont know if it's really worthy of the "mistakes to avoid thread- Havent you ever seen a catalog with a guitar with an angled Tunomatic and wonder *WHY*? Now you know. *shrugs* I've never really looked at or played a guitar with a tune-o-matic bridge. I'm also building a bass... cuz I'm a bassist... not a guitarist... I'm assuming there's someone (perhaps several) out there who are probably in the same situation I'm in. Edited March 16, 2009 by Narcissism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Scale length on a guitar refers to the measurement from the nut to the high E saddle (i.e., the thinnest string). I'd always assumed the same was true for basses, i.e., the scale length is set for the thinnest string. What you've discovered isn't a lesson about scale length, it's about guitar setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 even on a guitar i usually set the treble side of a TOM back 1-1.5mm and the bass back 3mm ish saying scale length is the nut to high E is misleading as even the high strings need a little compensation, although tis normally fine for a guitar. i think using the high E on the scale length measurement led to my first bass only just intonating much better to refer to scale length as twice the distance between nut -12th fret. And refer to compensation as compensation. whenever you place a bridge work and the scale length AND the desired amount of compensation. and everybody stop trying to take short cuts on relatively simple measurements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well now I know Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I guess none of you have heard of "****COMPENSATION****" Oh thank you for being here to point out the obvious by using one word to state exactly what was already said by the mere mention of a word that answers nothing by itself No problemo- glad to help- However I *think* I also had *THE MOST* thorough explanation as to why it was necessary and conditions that affect it as well. Or were you just lashing out at me cuz you're "compensating" for something?! Forgot to compensate your bridge placement on your 2" scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 saying scale length is the nut to high E is misleading You're right, I should have added that I measure so that there's always some forward play for the saddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Or were you just lashing out at me cuz you're "compensating" for something?! Yup...using my post to compensate for your lack of helpfulness :D Besides..your mom said my bridge placement was perfectly suited to my scale length...and she's the expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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