RickBlacker Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 http://www.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/...s/1hum_1vol.pdf This is the diagram and exactly how my guitar is setup and I've wired it up the same. Single Seymour Duncan JB, single pot. NO tone control. I've double checked and double checked, everything seems to be wired up correctly, yet I'm getting a lot of buzz until i touch my strings. Then buzzing stops. Yes, I have put a ground to the claw. I did have the wires on the jack backwards, I've fixed that. Still have buzz. I decided to look at the wiring on my Jackson. Recently I replaced the stock pups on it with some Dimarzio pups. However, that is wired up with 2 humbuckers, 2 volume pots, no tone control. The only clear difference that I can see is that on the Jackson dispite the obvious extra wiring and switch, is that coming from each hole where the pup wires come out is a single black wire going directly to ground. I can't recall what this wire is, but, I'm guessing that it's soldered to the pup mounting bracket? The bridge on my problem guitar is an original Ibanez Edge trem. Is it possible that the ground wire on the claw is not grounding the trem correctly? Do I need to also ground the bridge???? Any help will be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well...it's not uncommon to have some buzz...untill you ground the strings to your hands. There are all kinds of stray magnetic and rf signals about. However, good wiring and shielding of cavities can help a lot pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well...it's not uncommon to have some buzz...untill you ground the strings to your hands. There are all kinds of stray magnetic and rf signals about. However, good wiring and shielding of cavities can help a lot pete Is the shielding a special material that you buy from a guitar supply store or are there common materials you can buy from a local hardware store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Here are some pics of the wiring. Edited March 19, 2009 by RickBlacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ahhh...so much easier with some decent pics... ok...well it looks like you are using solid core wire...bit of a no-no. You are better off with flexible braided wires, like the pickup wires. Also...looks like a bit to much heat going on...the insulation has melted on some wires...more practice required. As a tip...you do need a fair amount of heat to solder well onto the back of a pot. The trick is to clean and make bare this by gentily filing or sandin a small area where you intend to solder, then very soon after (before it can retarnish with the air) use a hot iron to make a neat solder join. Once this is achieved, a cooler iron is all that should be required with "pre-tinned) (solder coated wires) to join the two together into aneat shiny join. Is the shielding a special material that you buy from a guitar supply store or are there common materials you can buy from a local hardware store? Well, generally a copper material, sometimes aluminium (not kitchen foil) and available form guitar supply places...HOWEVER I have done plenty of guitars and avoided shielding with very good results...but first, why are you getting noise... The effect of the unshielded cables carrying a hot signal (ie, to the jack socket) and particularly because you have used overly long unbraided and loose wiring...has resulted in you creating an antenna! The noise is primarily radio frequency noise. HB pickups will cancel a lot of this...but it wont do anything for the wiring you add afterward...which is where your noise is coming from. Notice that your quality pickup has leads encased in a black sheath with a bare wire, this is shielded cable...the hot signal wires are completely surrounded by a grounded "shield" which is what cavity shielding is intending to do. This is of course what is in a guitar lead for the same reason. So...to cut noise without shielding all the cavities and such, and especially with this guitar...simply replace the pot to output jack with a length of shielded cable...might need an electronics store like radio shack...or an old guitar lead perhaps... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ahhh...so much easier with some decent pics... ok...well it looks like you are using solid core wire...bit of a no-no. You are better off with flexible braided wires, like the pickup wires. Also...looks like a bit to much heat going on...the insulation has melted on some wires...more practice required. As a tip...you do need a fair amount of heat to solder well onto the back of a pot. The trick is to clean and make bare this by gentily filing or sandin a small area where you intend to solder, then very soon after (before it can retarnish with the air) use a hot iron to make a neat solder join. Once this is achieved, a cooler iron is all that should be required with "pre-tinned) (solder coated wires) to join the two together into aneat shiny join. Is the shielding a special material that you buy from a guitar supply store or are there common materials you can buy from a local hardware store? Well, generally a copper material, sometimes aluminium (not kitchen foil) and available form guitar supply places...HOWEVER I have done plenty of guitars and avoided shielding with very good results...but first, why are you getting noise... The effect of the unshielded cables carrying a hot signal (ie, to the jack socket) and particularly because you have used overly long unbraided and loose wiring...has resulted in you creating an antenna! The noise is primarily radio frequency noise. HB pickups will cancel a lot of this...but it wont do anything for the wiring you add afterward...which is where your noise is coming from. Notice that your quality pickup has leads encased in a black sheath with a bare wire, this is shielded cable...the hot signal wires are completely surrounded by a grounded "shield" which is what cavity shielding is intending to do. This is of course what is in a guitar lead for the same reason. So...to cut noise without shielding all the cavities and such, and especially with this guitar...simply replace the pot to output jack with a length of shielded cable...might need an electronics store like radio shack...or an old guitar lead perhaps... pete Hi Pete, thank you very much... Just want to confirm I fully understand this. Braided wire is better that solid core. Do you know why that is? Clean off an area on the pot where a solder joint is desired, use something like sand paper. Use a hot soldering iron to put a puddle of solder down Then using a cold soldering iron to put a (pre soldered) wire lead to the existing puddle. Don't need shielding if I use a shielded wire lead from pot to jack Also wire leads are too long, acting as an antina.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yes...basically that. The soldering on the pot looks ok...you still need a hot iron, not cold...but you often need a lot of heat to do the pot...so better to solder the pot...then solder to the solder on the pot Solid wire heats up very quickly...hence you have melted insulation. the braided wire absorbs the solder between the braids making a much better join. The flexibility makes for a more robust wiring. The joins with the solid coil are a bit "dry" you can still see the copper. The trick with the braided is to strip a bit, twist it, solder this up to itself (tinning the wire) then perhaps "tin" what you are joining too...the attach wire and remelt the two together, cut off excess. But doing this, you will avoid stray threads and the soldered braid will handle like solid. Mainly the braided wont heat up like the solid and melt everything at the required heat you need. Don't need shielding if I use a shielded wire lead from pot to jack pretty much...at least on this one. It is pretty simple, the case of the pot shields everything in side, the pickup lead is shielded...so except where the join to the pot is, everything should be shielded without having to do the whole cavity! anyway...you've got the idea...it should help...there is often a bit of noise creeps in when you are not grounding the noise with your body by touching the strings...that's why they are grounded...they are grounded to you! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I don't agree..the soldering of the wires to the pots is unacceptable and that is where your noise is coming from.I use that same wire on many of my builds and have no noise at all... All of your solder joints are big old blobs of "cold" on the back of the pots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Dry joints a go-go! Flux - that's what you need! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I don't agree..the soldering of the wires to the pots is unacceptable and that is where your noise is coming from.I use that same wire on many of my builds and have no noise at all... Agreed, those are not pretty solder joints. Pesky wires just didn't want to sit still. It wasn't all that bad at first. It was clean. But then I tried to go back and re-do something and it became the mess that it is. Need to get a solder sucker. The wire I'm using is the CAT-5 network cable that I have a ton of. I have to take my guitar apart anyway, have to fix a few things. I'll clean everything up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 anyway...you've got the idea...it should help...there is often a bit of noise creeps in when you are not grounding the noise with your body by touching the strings...that's why they are grounded...they are grounded to you! pete Yes, and thank you very much for your help! Greatly appreciated. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 It's not so much the "not pretty " part...It's that it appears as if the wires in numerous spots are just kind of "trapped" inside the solder,rather than bonded with it...that is called a "cold" joint and is a big problem...means your grounds are not proper...(since all of the ones in question are ground wires)and is as if the guitar was barely grounded at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 It's not so much the "not pretty " part...It's that it appears as if the wires in numerous spots are just kind of "trapped" inside the solder,rather than bonded with it...that is called a "cold" joint and is a big problem...means your grounds are not proper...(since all of the ones in question are ground wires)and is as if the guitar was barely grounded at all. Agree. Sometime ago I used to on a shop floor doing soldering rework of computer motherboards and making specialised mainframe boards that the flow solder machines couldn't do - scope soldering. I can tell you for nothing that a cold joint (we always called them dry joints) was the main reason for boards failing testing. Using soldering flux helps ensure that solder flow into the connectors and onto whatever you are connecting - it also makes it easy to make a clean looking solder connection and more importantly reduces the possibility of dry/cold joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well now...To be fair,I use rosin core solder,not paste flux...never have... Back of a pot....it's tricky...I first melt a drop or two of solder and let it fall onto the back of the pot,then I bury the tip flat against the solder "ball" onto the back of the pot until it flows onto the pot...then I hold the wire to be soldered onto the solder spot I just made and put the iron on top of the wire and press firmly until I see it bond...then I drop another ball ono the top of the wire as it is stuck and quickly put down the solder wire,hold the electric wire still with my left hand,and with my right applyt the iron again onto the latest ball of solder until it bonds with everything else there...sometimess you use the iron tip to "wipe" the solder up and over it..."tinning" the iron is very important,as is cleaning it before a job. anyways...the whole process takes 10 to 15 seconds,and for me it makes a very nice joint which looks and works good without overheating the pot or the wire...In the past while learning I fried as many pots as I successfully soldered...now I never ever have an issue. I also have a little spring clip to hold wires still wherever I can...and a poker to poke when I need it.I never sand a pot,I never apply flux paste,and I never have an issue even years and years after a rewiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 My last big wiring job(aside from the LP supreme clone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I don't have a solder sucker, is there any tricks up anyone's sleeve to removing the old solder when i start over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I've never liked the solder sucker...if you were local you could have one of mine! I prefer de-soldering braid...you can kind of use shielding braid to do the same thing. Well now...To be fair,I use rosin core solder,not paste flux...never have... Yes...you don't want flux in there with electronics...rosin (flux) cored solder for electronics is the beast, flows well without excessive flux. What some people don't realize that a new shiny pot is usually coated in a a surface that doesn't take solder well. Filing this a little before it can oxidize (also gives a grippy surface) in the spot you want to solder on the pot makes things a lot easier...otherwise as wes suggests...solder the pot, solder the wire, then solder the two soldered joins together. Pots can be tricky because you can get a nice shiny ball of solder, but it is still a cold join. Anyway it is practice and finding your own way to get the best results. We are talking wire connections, sure solid core will work if it connects well enough, but it won't get as good a results as braided wires generally and takes more care as it heats up pretty quick and melts the insulation or shrinks it away from the join. I have used it occasionally if I have something, like small joins on a phase switch where I want a connection that stays put and will never move. Shielded cable for signals where possible, but don't need to go overboard. It wouldn't fit in my tele properly, but then there was only a short "run". The old way of doing it, though not quite as good, it to create a "twisted pair". Basically, with a pickup lead or output jack it is a good idea to twist the ground and hot signal "pair" and obviously the more flexible stranded wire is good for that. Colour coding wire can be good, and you can usually find a bunch of colors in a pack at electronics stores for a couple of bucks...makes trouble shooting a little easier. Match with pickup wires or have your own system for ground and hot wires. It's not so much the "not pretty " part...It's that it appears as if the wires in numerous spots are just kind of "trapped" inside the solder,rather than bonded with it...that is called a "cold" joint and is a big problem...means your grounds are not proper...(since all of the ones in question are ground wires)and is as if the guitar was barely grounded at all. hmmm...well this is true too. I restrained my usual criticisms as being a little unhelpful. Realistically, even with a cold join that might fail or be intermittent...if it is connected, it is connected! The solid wire really makes this more likely. The bare copper is likely to have oxidized especially if you touched the bare wire which promotes a cold join. The benefit of stranded wire is it sucks the solder right through it and won't transmit the heat up the wire and melt the insulation quite like that. The likelihood of a cold join failing with 22 separate strands being joined and joined to each other, even with substandard soldering skills is extremely low. Agreed, those are not pretty solder joints. Pesky wires just didn't want to sit still. I'm sure...solid core doesn't seem to like resoldering as far as insulation melt either...it tends to shrink away. The benefit of them is they tend to stay where you bend them. There is a trick to soldering. Wes has some clips and sometimes that helps...they can absorb the heat in a wire and stop insulation melt for instance. I find that I can hold the wire with one hand, the iron with the other, and hold the solder to the join. I'm writing this of course because these questions come up a bit and they might be of help...so don't take anything personally. We haven't talked about the soldering iron and care. You don't need or want a powerful iron with electronics..15-25watt tops. You need to take care of the tip and keep it clean by tinning it and do this before and after use...and wipe off excess solder. I now use a soldering station and pencil like iron that's thermostatically controlled. However, you don't need all that. It is good to have something small and light so you can do your wire holding and solder feeding. Flux by the way is a type of acid...the rosin in solder is plenty of this but it burns away quick...ideally you would be feeding the solder into the join as you heat the joint and it will simply flow. But like everything, it's practice... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBlacker Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Never took any of it personally. It's all been VERY helpful. As a FYI, I have a pencil type, low watt iron. The solder is rosin core. My work may not look like it, but it is. I agree, using color coded wire is best, just didn't have any, used my cat5 cable. I will get some braided wire and use that. I have to take my guitar apart anyway and fix some things, but, that's an entirely different topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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