avengers63 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 He'll have to chime in on that one. I remember the post, but I didn't know what he was talking about. I figured he'd show us eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 John, this build is looking great, the white body with the dark neck should look awesome. Keep the pics coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moth Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 First, dissolve a steel wool pad in a quart of white vinegar. When it's all gone, strain it thoroughly. This vinegar/iron mixture then gets applied directly to the wood. A chemical reaction takes place with the tanic acids in the wood, turning it black. The amount of tanic acids directly correlates to how dark it'll get. Oak and walnut turn virtually solid black. Noted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 any word on what the acids might do to the wood fibers over time ? and wouldn't black dye or stain get you the same effect ? just wonderin' ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 The acids are already there. The vinegar is simply causing a chemical reaction to turn them black. As for adding them with the powder, I can't tell you. That part of the process was taken from an article in Popular Woodworking. I'll trust them to NOT give you something that would damage the wood. Maybe a dye/stain could get a similar looking effect, but that's it. Using one of them would mean having to put a finish on or risk rubbing it off. OK, maybe not so much with the dye, but it would still just be on the surface. The vinegar actually turns the wood fibers black from the inside out, not color them on the surface. I don't know how deeply it penetrates, but I know it'll never rub off. The wood itself will have to be worn away for the color to be lost. And that's the #1 reason I went with this method. I wanted a natural-feeling, relatively unfinished neck that was jet black. To my knowledge, that wouldn't be a feasible long-term possibility with dye. Oak is simply too heavy, so walnut was the only realistic choice. It works out pretty well that walnut has a great tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Ahhhhhh... naked neck with color added . Tre cool. Not the drummer , either. I asked because I use vinegar to remove stuck on concrete from my work clothes when they get splattered. The acidity in it breaks down the concrete because of the protiens or whatever ... I just didn't know if it would do the same to wood fibers .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nah. It's a really old technique woodworkers have been using. Wood is probably a little more resilient than cotton, dontchathink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nah. It's a really old technique woodworkers have been using. Wood is probably a little more resilient than cotton, dontchathink? IDK .... make a pair of pants out of wood and wash em a few times then let me know ...... JK - I'm sure it'll be fine. cool technique!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I've had wood IN my pants on more than one occasion, but I've never had wood AS my pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarkid4143 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I used to love using the many different angles on an Iceman to make a lot of different body styles, I bet I ripped off every curve on that thing a half-dozen different ways. Ha, kinda like I do with Strats! Pictures I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinhold Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Can this be used on ebony itself to eliminate grey streaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Can this be used on ebony itself to eliminate grey streaks? I have no idea. I suppose it'd depend on the levels of tanic acids in the ebony. I've experimented on scraps and found out that every piece of wood has some tanic acids in them. Some have a lot, some don't have very much at all, but every single piece of wood I've tried it on darkens some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Gluing on the mirrored face for the headstock today. Next up is the headstock binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) What I'm going to do is buy just the press insert, then put that into a block of wood. I don't have a press or clamp, so I hammer the frets in. I figure this will give me a better application of force across the width of the fret instead of concentrating it into one place. I just fill the slot with super glue then take a rubber tip hammer and push them in with that and slide the hammer across the fret pushing it in instead of hammering then take an extra radius block and squeeze clamp the fret in (I usually have three frets in before I clamp) let it dry a couple mins, move on and repeat. I find this is cheaper than buying press inserts and all that stuff and with this process I have only had to level the frets once (my first build) other than that the frets stay perfectly level, that is if the board is level to begin with. Love this build though, its lookin good and I like that ebonizing technique I will have to try it sometime. Edited March 24, 2010 by Juntunen Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moth Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 What I'm going to do is buy just the press insert, then put that into a block of wood. I don't have a press or clamp, so I hammer the frets in. I figure this will give me a better application of force across the width of the fret instead of concentrating it into one place. I just fill the slot with super glue then take a rubber tip hammer and push them in with that and slide the hammer across the fret pushing it in instead of hammering then take an extra radius block and squeeze clamp the fret in (I usually have three frets in before I clamp) let it dry a couple mins, move on and repeat. I find this is cheaper than buying press inserts and all that stuff and with this process I have only had to level the frets once (my first build) other than that the frets stay perfectly level, that is if the board is level to begin with. Love this build though, its lookin good and I like that ebonizing technique I will have to try it sometime. But now the radius block has fret imprints and superglue all over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 But now the radius block has fret imprints and superglue all over it No it doesn't get super glue on it, there might be a few drops but it doesn't get all over and I forgot to mention I build my own radius blocks but if you have just the couple dents in it it won't mess up your sanding shape. I use a spare block I don't use for sanding but I used to use the same blocks and nothing ever hapened with the sanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 My insert in a block of wood worked beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 My insert in a block of wood worked beautifully. never said in wouldn't, honestly I wish I had one of those inserts it's just I don't have the extra money for one right now and my technique works for me so yeah but it is a good idea what you did , you even saved some by not getting the caul for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 John - just "borrowed" your idea for my next neck. Trying out the "pyramid" shaped fretwire from SM this time ..... Thanks for sharing your ideers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) never said in wouldn't, honestly I wish I had one of those inserts it's just I don't have the extra money for one right now and my technique works for me so yeah but it is a good idea what you did , you even saved some by not getting the caul for it I was talking with the wife about getting the caul and buying an arbor press locally (and paying $50 less for it!). She's the one who suggested I do the "block of wood" thing and still hammer them in. And that's why I love talking it all over with her. She thinks further outside the box than I do. The insert was only $5 or so. John - just "borrowed" your idea for my next neck. Which one - the press insert, the back bolt, or ebonizing the wood? Edited March 25, 2010 by avengers63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 lolz..... sorry - the fret press/el-cheapo hammer thingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I've had wood IN my pants on more than one occasion, but I've never had wood AS my pants. I think this one blew past everyone, -Vinny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 John - just "borrowed" your idea for my next neck. Trying out the "pyramid" shaped fretwire from SM this time ..... Thanks for sharing your ideers. let me know how it goes I was looking at using those on a bass I'm building but haven't decided yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 I got the binding all welded together with acetone and the binding laminator. after some testing with the other piece, I did the binding channel for the headstock. And because I'm a little obsessive, I had to ebonize the inside of the channel as well. Just in case, ya know? Right now, the binding is in place with the glue drying. Even though it's c/a, I'd rather let it sit for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Time to epoxy the mirror to the face. I believe I transferred all of the info I need to do the pup routes. It's a good thing I'm not gluing anything else today, because that's all of the really useful ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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