Paint Of Choice?

[guitz]

As a newbie to guitar refinishing, I have an electric guitar that I've sanded and primed, and am ready to paint a solid color on it , with the intention of then adding some kind of airbrush graphics....I have a detail airgun I want to use to put the background color on. What I want to do, is a kandy color...which i've told needs to be a metallic color, then shoot it a transparent color of choice. I haven't been able to find much if any info on painting a guitar with a detail airgun, and what choices of paint types one could use, ...everything seems to be guys using rattle cans or some kind of stain or dye...I want a nice factory looking solid color , to then put an airbrush design on top of , then clear coat....Any recommendations for paint types? How often and with what kind of sandpaper to you use between coats of these paints, if any? Is it best to use a heat gun to speed up curing between base coats? What kind of clear coat should I use, and what works best out of a detail gun? I read that stuff is kinda dangerous...I have a respirator, but read some guys just take the guitar at that point to a body shop and have them shoot it with clear....

[Drak]

Wow, it sounds like your jumping into the deep end of the pool first.

The first best thing I could tell you is to get a mock-up body shaped like the one you want to work on, and every single operation you do, do to the mock-up first.

You will catch a lot of mistakes this way w/o harming your real guitar.

I think the best place to start is House of Kolor.

NO to heat guns.

Your choice of finish is up to you, and there's a lot to choose from and a lot to learn about each one.

If you go with any kind of 2-part finish, you will have to be diligent about cleaning your airbrush/guns very thoroughly or you'll ruin them, as solvents will not dissolve the finish once it's cured, and the openings in an airbrush are very small.

If I were you, I would buy a standard Pint Gun (about $40.00) to shoot your background finish.

Shooting a finish with an airbrush is like trying to empty Lake Superior with a teaspoon.

They're great for what they're designed to do, but not much else.

But the book 'Understanding Wood Finishes' by Bob Flexner, the Bible of finishing books, and read it, it will HELP YOU a LOT.

The only other thing to say for now is to practice, practice, practice on scrap first before looking at the real thing if you want it to look really good and have your time spent mean something.

Removing mistakes from a guitar is a DRAG.

[kpcrash]

Just to add to this a little - an often overlooked, but IMPORTANT fact is that to get that "factory" look, the surface must be absolutely smooth. Which means using grits/meshes with numbers greater than 1000 Also, depending on primer used, assuming it's rattlecan, make sure it has filled any pores in the wood. The primed surface should have just enough tooth to hold the color layer.

[guitz]

Actually, I was going to use my detail (pint) spray gun for the background, not an airbrush that I was going to use after the background Kandy color was set. I'll look into the house of kolor paints....they do have an interesting type that is really made to give different colors to chrome , but it would be interesting to see it on a guitar I think....

Edited July 1, 2010 by guitz

[ihocky2]

Look into the HOK Kandy Basecoats. They give a very similar look to spraying a metallic base and then a candy coat, but everything is already mixed and is easier to spray. Candy colors are slightly different from transparents in that a candy coat will continuosly get darker with each coat and each overlap, where a transparent will only reach a certain color. Candies are much harder to spray and get an even color. Certain colors are worse than others, for example HOK Organic Green is known to be one of the most difficult colors to spray evenly and not get color varitions from your overlaps.

The Kandy Basecoats are easier to spray, requires less coats therefore less material, meaning less money. Some people say they can notice a difference in the color, but everyone I have seen that from is guys who paint show cars, so they probably have a better eye for something like that than 99% of the rest of the population.

Like Drak said, get yourself something larger than an airbrush. It doesn't have to be anything fancy or expensive, but an airbrush is just too small to get the coverage you need.

[guitz]

Just to add to this a little - an often overlooked, but IMPORTANT fact is that to get that "factory" look, the surface must be absolutely smooth. Which means using grits/meshes with numbers greater than 1000 Also, depending on primer used, assuming it's rattlecan, make sure it has filled any pores in the wood. The primed surface should have just enough tooth to hold the color layer.

Yes, the smoothness after that last coat of primer (B.I.N.) was something I wasn't quite sure about...it LOOKS very smooth, but feels a bit course...I wasn't sure if that was a good thing , I figured a little bit of courseness would help the first layers stick good...I have 1 spot I forgot to put wood filler in, about an 1/8th inch pit in the wood, and it is visible, so I was going to sand off the primer there, and try to get it smooth ,the reprime that area..

Edited July 1, 2010 by guitz

[guitz]

Look into the HOK Kandy Basecoats. They give a very similar look to spraying a metallic base and then a candy coat, but everything is already mixed and is easier to spray. Candy colors are slightly different from transparents in that a candy coat will continuosly get darker with each coat and each overlap, where a transparent will only reach a certain color. Candies are much harder to spray and get an even color. Certain colors are worse than others, for example HOK Organic Green is known to be one of the most difficult colors to spray evenly and not get color varitions from your overlaps.

The Kandy Basecoats are easier to spray, requires less coats therefore less material, meaning less money. Some people say they can notice a difference in the color, but everyone I have seen that from is guys who paint show cars, so they probably have a better eye for something like that than 99% of the rest of the population.

Like Drak said, get yourself something larger than an airbrush. It doesn't have to be anything fancy or expensive, but an airbrush is just too small to get the coverage you need.

Thanks for that info....anything easier is the way for me to go at this point!

[guitz]

One basic question I forgot to ask....about how much paint is necessary for a base coat? HOK looks great, but pricey...a pint is 38 bux...I figure that's plenty for a guitar...

[Drak]

Let me give you an example for smoothness and how necessary it is:

I'm doing a Gold Floyded Superstrat right now.

Alder body, Maple top.

The top was figured Maple, but wasn't anything to write home to momma about, I tried to dye it 3 different ways and none of them really exited me, it's really just an AA top, so I decided to go with a solid finish.

I pore-filled the entire guitar with CYA glue, then flat sanded, then hand sanded with Abralon pads to 500.

I would 'feel' the finish with my fingertips for any roughness, went back, did some more flat sanding, some more Abralon sanding, more flat sanding, more Abralon sanding, until that finish was as smooth as I thought it could be.

Part of a gold finish (for me) is to prime it black first, so I did that, and I knew that if there were any imperfections, they had to be dealt with before the Gold goes on. When that top coat goes on, it has to be PERFECT.

I was very surprised at the amount of rough areas still existing once I shot the black primer, it showed up every imperfection, which really, is what I needed to see.

So yes, you want it REALLY SMOOTH, really perfectly smooth, before any finish coats go on, because if there's any imperfections and you start to level sand, you'll go through your finish at the high points, and even if you don't it will show.

Dead Smooth is what you want, and you can sand to 1000 grit and still get the mechanical 'bite' you're looking for for one finish to bite into another.

You can use/shoot one coat of your color top coat to show you your rough spots to help you identify what needs to be smoothed out before the rest of the top coats go on.

[kpcrash]

One basic question I forgot to ask....about how much paint is necessary for a base coat? HOK looks great, but pricey...a pint is 38 bux...I figure that's plenty for a guitar...

I have gotten base coats done with about 2.2 oz before provided I didn't screw up. I use a small detail gun, gravity fed, for basecoating. Set for about a 1.5" spray on front/back, narrow it down a bit on sides. Provided the primer is good, the coat should be adequate without potentially interfering with any tonal qualities of the wood.

[guitz]

Ok, so when I get to the point of needing clear coat...what kind do you recommend that works well with HOK stuff?....I'd like to use it with my detail gun as opposed to out of a rattle can, I thinkt the results would be better and more consistent...also, am I right in assuming the clear coat wouldn't need to go on until after the airbrush design or pattern is on? Oh, I also forgot to ask ...when laying down the base coats of color, is it better to use several light coats? Let them completely dry after each pass?

Oh yea, what about reducing HOK stuff to work well out of a spray gun?

Edited July 2, 2010 by guitz

[yorgo]

go with auto air water based...no mask needed and it is great. you can use a uerthane clear that is compatible.

[ihocky2]

If you want to use HOK, use their products from start to finish. You can go with Auto Air, but the cost difference is negligable if you buy properly.

Personally I would say based on your questions, stay away from the 2 part polyurethanes, buy some dye and some lacquer and some metallic flake. It is far more forgiving, and from you questions I can see that you do not have a lot of experience with spraying these types of products. It is possible to mix between brands, but you don't know what you are going to get, and most times the results are hindered if not a failure. Even if it looks great today, you don't know how it will be in two years.

If you feel you must use 2-part poly's then here is some helpfull info.

Check out Coast Airbrush.

You can buy Kandy Koncentrates. 1 oz. of concentrate is way more than you need. Buy 1 quart of clear and you can mix some up, add the concetrate and now you have a candy color, for only a few dollars more since you need to buy the clear anyway. Coast is nice enough that you can call them and they will sell primer and ko-seal (which you MUST use) in small quantities as a special order. You have to pay a few dollars for the reduced volume, but it is cheaper than buying more than you really need.

Read the HOK manual and follow it to the letter. That will give you all of the info you need as to coat thickness and flash time in between.

As for reducing HOK Clear, you MUST use their reducer. Just follow the instructions. You can over reduce, but allow more flash time and use a slower reducer to prevent solvent pop.

[guitz]

So I'm ok using HOK colors for the background , sprayed with my airgun...then HOK or auto air water based for airbrush design on top of that....then a compatible clear coat, sprayed from the airgun...( I know these are purportedly difficult for beginners to deal with, but I'm very patient and don't mind trial and error to get it reduced just so to flow freely from the airbrush. The guitar is a cheapie body, so I'm using it as a canvas to learn...something goes awry, just sand back down to primer or wood and do it again )

[ihocky2]

Take some time and read the HOK Tech Manual, you'll gain a lot of information on what you can and can't do from that. Then do some reading over at the Kustom Kulture Lounge. Lots of airbrush work over there, and a ton of good info, more than you'll get here for custom painting. This site is great for building, and general paint knowledge. KKL is all about custom painting, and nothing else.

The reason I say to do more research is that there are a lot of variables that make it difficult to say yes you're safe, or no you're not. Several of the Kandy Kolors are known to have bleed through problems, if you are applying graphics over the candy that is information you'll need. Even applying a few coats of clear does not stop the bleed through, it will minimize it but not prevent it. If you are applying graphics over the metallic base before candy coating, that adds a different set of problems. You can't tape over metallics, nor can you scuff sand or level sand them.

Being willing to practice and perfect what you are doing is very usefull and will help a lot. But I also get the impression that you are eager to get going and want to dive right in. If I am correct about that, it is going to hinder you quite a bit.

[sztriki]

Hi!

I'd like to refinish an Epiphone Korina Explorer. The guitar has been stripped and sanded with 180 grit. There's a company (I live in Hungary, so geting proper stuff for this is not that easy) that makes and sells many kinds of paints/lacquers, and I asked about their NC stuff. When they heard I want to refinish a guitar they told me they have a set of paint that is bought by many who refinish guitars. I ordered the stuff and it is polyester paint...is it really good for painting a guitar? I know that mostly NC and polyurethane is used...if yes any special advices about thickness, etc...?

Thanks for any help!

[kpcrash]

A bunch of Ibanez use polyester paint.

[ihocky2]

It will build extremely fast compared to lacquer, so it takes far less coats. For polyurethane I usually spray 3 coats, let it dry, level sand and then 1 or two flow coats. Then final sand and polish. Be aware that polyester sprays are EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS to your lungs.

[sztriki]

Thanks for the replies! The guy at the shop even told me to watch for the mixing order cause wrong mixing order can cause self-combustion...