Pot Selection

[orgmorg]

If you had a Tele bridge pickup and a P90 in the neck position, and were otherwise wiring the guitar like a tele (3 way switch, 1 vol, 1 tone,) would you use 500k or 250k pots? I usually use 500k for P90s, but wonder if that would be too much for the tele PU.

[Prostheta]

Perhaps you could wire in a resistor to the switching somewhere (not thought this one out yet - just theory) to change the apparent pot value when bringing the Tele pickup into the game?

[Geo]

A 250k resistor between the Tele pickup and the switch would bring the load under full pot rotation up to 500k... but I don't think you could ever turn the Tele pickup down below 50%.

crap, that's backwards

250k resistor for the P-90, but you won't be able to turn it off all the way.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Geo

[borge]

Use a 500k, if the bridge pup is too bright put a 500k resistor from bridge hot to earth, it'll sound like a 250k pot in bridge and bridge+neck positions, volume and tone will function as normal.

But the problem with that is the output loss will make the bridge even lower output than the p90, whether thats a problem or not depends on the pickups and taste, if it is, an RC filter (resistor and cap- a fixed 'tone pot') to only cut some top end would be better, but will need tuning to taste.

I use 500k on others guitars and 1M on my own guitars, why dump useful signal to ground? if it's to bright there should be a knob with 'treble' next to it on your amp

[Tim37]

use dual Concentric pots and to two volumes and two tones one 250k for the bridge and a 500k for the neck. or go with two volumes no tones.

[orgmorg]

OK, I'm liking borge's resistor and capacitor filter idea best; I assume that runs between the bridge PU hot lead and ground?

What resistor/capacitor values would be a good starting point?

[orgmorg]

So, what if i do it like this:

This is using a LP style toggle switch, with the lead for the bridge pickup going to the middle lug of the tone pot.

Am I right in thinking that this would make the tone control work only (or at least mostly) on the bridge PU?

If so, I think that is the way to go, since who really needs a tone control on the neck pickup anyway?

And this way I could use the 500k pots and if that makes the neck PU too bright, it can be toned down independently.

Or am I missing something?

Edited November 19, 2010 by orgmorg

[borge]

So in the first post you were worried about the neck pup being to bright (not a concern I've ever seen or heard before...) and now you want a tone pot on the bridge pup?? which will make the neck pup sound even brighter, relatively..

Your wiring was quite odd, here's the conventional way of doing it:

The tone will be active in all positions the bridge pup is ie bridge and bridge+neck.

I've included a bass cut schem. because in my experience with teles with a single in the bridge and a p90 or hb in the neck is they're too different tonally, when you eq the amp its either : bridge-good neck-muddy/boomy or neck-good bridge-shrill and IME the best cure is replacing the master hi cut tone with a neck low cut tone.

[orgmorg]

So in the first post you were worried about the neck pup being to bright

Not sure where you got that, but in any case, no, I'm worried about the bridge pickup being too bright.

Your wiring was quite odd

Yes, the reason the tone pot was wired like that was to use it just for the bridge PU, so that with the tone turned all the way up, it goes straight to the volume pot, and as you turn it down, it increases the resistance between the pickup and the volume, while also rolling off highs.

That was my thinking, anyway. Just wanted to verify it. As you can see, I don't know a lot about electronics.

I've included a bass cut schem. because in my experience with teles with a single in the bridge and a p90 or hb in the neck is they're too different tonally, when you eq the amp its either : bridge-good neck-muddy/boomy or neck-good bridge-shrill and IME the best cure is replacing the master hi cut tone with a neck low cut tone.

OK, this sounds good, too. So this low-cut only affects the neck pickup? If so, how is it integrated into the rest of the wiring?

The circuit you drew is basially a pot and a cap, right? but is it the existing tone pot, or a separate one?

Thanks, and sorry for any confusion

edit: OK, I see now where I said neck instead of bridge- brain fart.

Edited November 20, 2010 by orgmorg

[borge]

I've included a bass cut schem. because in my experience with teles with a single in the bridge and a p90 or hb in the neck is they're too different tonally, when you eq the amp its either : bridge-good neck-muddy/boomy or neck-good bridge-shrill and IME the best cure is replacing the master hi cut tone with a neck low cut tone.

OK, this sounds good, too. So this low-cut only affects the neck pickup? If so, how is it integrated into the rest of the wiring?

The circuit you drew is basially a pot and a cap, right? but is it the existing tone pot, or a separate one?

It goes in series with what you want to be affected, in your case the neck hot would go come in on the left, the right would got to the switch.

One advantage of this over the bridge (hi cut) tone is the bass cut won't affect the bridge pup in the bridge+neck setting like the bridge tone would.

Yep, just a pot and cap, A 1M pot is best, smaller values (500k, 250k) aren't as effective. A 0.001uf cap is good, I always tune it to taste to match the particular guitar.

separate pot to the existing tone, I assume the guitar isn't complete? so you have the option to have more that two pots?

I've only done it to teles who's owners complain of a muddy neck pup, all have been single bridge and humbucker neck, all have replaced or rewired the stock tone pot. I use the stock 250k pot if does the trick, if it doesn't have enough range for a particularly muddy pup i'll put in a 1M

Of course, whether the bass cut will be any use to you depends on your ears, your pups and your guitar.

[orgmorg]

Got it!

I know this looks even weirder, but it really works:

This puts the 500k of the tone pot in parallel with the vol pot when the bridge PU is on, dropping the resistance to 250k.

And it still functions as a tone control.

It may not be quite kosher, but it sounds great in all positions.

[borge]

Interesting solution

The bridge pup is connected to the output at all times via the tone pot amd cap, the pot and cap form a high pass filter, the tone pot acts as a volume to this signal.

ie when the neck pup only is selected turning the tone knob will alter the high passed bridge pups signal volume, of course this will be masked by the tone knobs intended function: a low pass filter.

Put simply: you aren't getting the pure neck pup signal in the neck pos, a significant amount of high passed bridge signal is there too.

Doing this will give the intended result without that^ quirk:

if the bridge pup is too bright put a 500k resistor from bridge hot to earth, it'll sound like a 250k pot in bridge and bridge+neck positions, volume and tone will function as normal.

you can also drop the resistance to 250k by turning a 500k pot down to 9/10

[orgmorg]

Doing this will give the intended result without that^ quirk:

QUOTE (borge @ Nov 19 2010, 11:51 AM)

if the bridge pup is too bright put a 500k resistor from bridge hot to earth, it'll sound like a 250k pot in bridge and bridge+neck positions, volume and tone will function as normal.

Yep, that's where I got the idea, but I didn't have a 500k resistor. Except of course, I did- the tone pot.

I like the quirk, though. Thanks for explaining it- I can see what's going on now. I had a feeling something was going to be leaking somewhere.

[orgmorg]

Tweaked it a bit more:

Now the bridge pickup stays off with the switch in the neck only position, and the tone control functions in the other two positions.