Second Build - Single Cut - Red And White

[Prostheta]

I'm always circumspect about any product bought from a hardware store, since the expectations of performance at "consumer grade" are always less precise and generally lower than "professional", simply because they don't need to be and it's cheaper to produce a vaguely glue-like product than an engineered consistent one (I exaggerate). D3 as a term is only an indication of suitability in a non-dry environment, and I think Titebond Original/I might even just be a D1 or D2 adhesive. Once manufacturers start publishing technical specifications for an adhesive of course, you're instantly working with a product that is engineered to a working standard as opposed to "good enough to go on the shelf". Gorilla Glue or any of these other "brand" names are meaningless, and I would rather pay more for a product that I know will work as specified, not "as implied". So yes, exactly. Titebond isn't better by any specific means, but it's consistent and known to work. That's worth the ticket for entry right there.

I don't subscribe to the whole "transfer vibrations" thing when it comes to glues. An ideal glue film is so thin that it's negligible by comparison to plain old good woodworking. Too many good conversations have gone to ass by ending up as a deleterious navel gaze. In some cases a circle gaze! hahaha

Bottom line with Titebond. Don't buy Titebond II or Titebond III as they're intended to have a degree of plasticity to the adhesive to retain joint strength whilst the wood flexes with moisture intake/loss. This is nothing that a guitar needs to consider. Titebond Original all the way.

As a point of interest, I heard talk that Gibson used urea formaldehyde glue (fenoli liima) for bonding the Maple caps onto the Mahogany backs of Les Pauls back in the 50s. Whether this is true, partially true or completely false I did a test and found that it produces a superb bond with a very glassy thin film. If this were practical for enthusiast use, I would advocate its use more. It's dodgy stuff in that the jury is out on whether it will kill you or not. Likely, the jury is out getting fresh air from the stink of the glues in the evidence bins!

Piltti jars are great for all sorts of parts as well, but not so good for shellac storage as the top gets glued shut....

[Bizman62]

7 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I don't subscribe to the whole "transfer vibrations" thing when it comes to glues. An ideal glue film is so thin that it's negligible by comparison to plain old good woodworking.---

Bottom line with Titebond. Don't buy Titebond II or Titebond III as they're intended to have a degree of plasticity to the adhesive to retain joint strength whilst the wood flexes with moisture intake/loss. This is nothing that a guitar needs to consider. Titebond Original all the way.

Umm... If an ideal glue film is negligible then plasticity shouldn't be an issue. Or am I missing something here?

I totally agree with you in not having to prepare for moisture related flexes. But if it just so happened that the only glue available were something like Titebond III would it cause any harm?

[Prostheta]

It might creep under tension or other load, for example a scarf joint or neck joint. It's an issue.

[Bizman62]

11 hours ago, Prostheta said:

It might creep under tension or other load, for example a scarf joint or neck joint. It's an issue.

Creeping... Now that you said it it's obvious. I've seen plastic gaskets change their shape irreversibly. So a glue that feels like semi soft plastic (Tupperware) when it's dry can do the same. Thanks!

[henrim]

16 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Most likely so. However, it's hard for a non-professinal woodworker to know which variety to choose or where to buy it. A glimpse on their site talked about industrial adhesives and emissions. A dozen of D3 (which to me says nothing) glues in the woodworking section alone! The consumer section was all about cleaning.

Right, their website is a mess. For all general glueing I use Kiilto B3 (a D3 glue) which is sold in regular hardware stores. For guitars, so far,  I have used only Titebond Original because I have it. 

[Nicco]

Looks absolutely sensational with the French polish. Also pretty impressively slim looking from side on, helped no doubt by the chamfer you've used on the back. What's the overall thickness of the body? 

[Nicco]

Oh and I see in the early posts there seems to be a lot of discussion about the knobs you're using. What's the go with them? Ha ha

[henrim]

8 minutes ago, Nicco said:

Looks absolutely sensational with the French polish. Also pretty impressively slim looking from side on, helped no doubt by the chamfer you've used on the back. What's the overall thickness of the body? 

The top is flat but the backside is carved so the thickness is not uniform. At the center the body is 47mm.

[Prostheta]

1 hour ago, henrim said:

Right, their website is a mess. For all general glueing I use Kiilto B3 (a D3 glue) which is sold in regular hardware stores. For guitars, so far,  I have used only Titebond Original because I have it. 

 

B3 is very standard. I've most commonly seen it in drums at my workplaces. For everything but parts under tension (see creeping issue) it's a solid choice. The only thing I don't like about it is the cosmetic glueline, but that's easily sorted with tight joinery work and correct clamping pressure.

[henrim]

28 minutes ago, Nicco said:

Oh and I see in the early posts there seems to be a lot of discussion about the knobs you're using. What's the go with them? Ha ha

I wish I knew. I'll just have to come up with something. I'm not expecting anything phenomenal though

[henrim]

I found a knob I was going to use on this guitar. And then not. And now maybe.

Originally this guitar was going to use Schaller locking tuners but they went to an other guitar Now this is going to have Schecter tuners with a brass cogs that go well with the jack assembly that has a bit of brass in it too. Tuners have ebony knobs, so I’ll either make padouk knobs to them or make the pot knobs with ebony. I’ll have to try.

I’ll make anodized aluminum pickup rings that should go nicely with the Schaller bridge. 

Some 70’s vibe on this one.

[Nicco]

Wow, that's actually a pretty good looking knob... not words I ever thought I was going to type!

I saw in your other build that you were milling parts, doo you've obviously got done machining ability, did you turn the aluminium ring on a lathe? 

[Nicco]

And the cool looking output jack too; did you make that?

[henrim]

4 hours ago, Nicco said:

Wow, that's actually a pretty good looking knob... not words I ever thought I was going to type!

I saw in your other build that you were milling parts, doo you've obviously got done machining ability, did you turn the aluminium ring on a lathe? 

Aluminium part is turned in a small metal lathe. As well as the padouk part, IIRC.

4 hours ago, Nicco said:

And the cool looking output jack too; did you make that?

Yes, that is a modified Switchcraft end pin jack (for acoustic). Switchcraft jack is made of chrome/nickel plated brass. I removed the plating in the lathe and turned a aluminium outer ring for the jack.

[Prostheta]

Giving everything a custom touch specifically for the project makes a huge difference.

[Nicco]

3 hours ago, henrim said:

Aluminium part is turned in a small metal lathe. As well as the padouk part, IIRC.

Yes, that is a modified Switchcraft end pin jack (for acoustic). Switchcraft jack is made of chrome/nickel plated brass. I removed the plating in the lathe and turned a aluminium outer ring for the jack.

Very cool, they both turned out fantastically. Well done. 

[henrim]

Got these knobs turned. Made a couple of variations and these are the ones that go in to this guitar. Unfinished still. One volume and tone. Still need to make a rotary selector knob which will be smaller in size and just aluminum. Maybe knurled. I used to hate knurling but nowadays I need to restrict myself from doing it to every single piece I turn in lathe

[Prostheta]

How about using a dividing plate and cutting grooves across the sides instead?

[henrim]

27 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

How about using a dividing plate and cutting grooves across the sides instead?

That is an option too and could work in this particular case.

And to be clear when I say knurling I mean straight knurling. I’m not yet in to diamond and cross types. Although they can be functional in tool handles and such.

[Prostheta]

Achieving a perfect crisp diamond knurl can be quite the trick in materials that don't want it. I'm definitely a process rather than end product guy. 

[henrim]

Control cavity design. I took a similar approach to what I did with my Black SC. It was done with EMG Lego bricks while this is done with regular components.

Components are mounted to an aluminum base plate that acts as a common ground. I’m not entirely sure if this is the best method for grounding. The more I read about grounding in electronics the more sure I’m I know nothing about it. It’s not as simple as it seems. Anyway I have no means for any scientific approach. I try it out, if it sounds fine it works fine. If it doesn’t then I’ll try to fix it. 

The thing is, this approach eliminates the need to solder wires to the back of the pots. A custom that I hate. Not the actual soldering but the concept of attaching wires to somewhere that is not prepared to take them. Just feels wrong. That and the fact that I have seen many badly executed bonds to the pots even in commercial products. The down side with the way I’m doing this is that the ground connection goes bad if a potentiometer comes loose. And they do. But so do solders break. Tightening a pot is not a big deal. Lock Tite helps too. As long as it’s put in the right place, obviously. 

Also less wires. This one has the most basic humbucker wiring. Neck/Both/Bridge. Shared volume and tone. No bells, no whistles. I might make a PCB for the next build as it’s going to have more pickup combinations.

I designed and built the most of this guitar a decade ago. I probably didn’t ever draw the control cavity nor did I find the routing template I used. So it took a bit of trial and error to make the plate fit properly in to the cavity and get the components placed. Not easy to take measurements of the already shaped body and make sure a hole drilled from the top of the body comes out from the correct place on the back. That is a good lesson for the next build. Draw everything and when you change something upon building, update the damn plans, Henri!

Other than that l didn’t ever decide whether or not spray some clear over the shellac top. It is pretty vulnerable as it is but somehow I’m unsure if it is a good idea. What I did though, I polished one final layer the other night. Don’t know why. Anyway that is apparently not going to cure. Shellac probably gone bad. Have to clean it up, mix some new shellac and polish again.

[Bizman62]

1 minute ago, henrim said:

I know nothing about it. It’s not as simple as it seems.

That is a common commercial custom approach for proper grounding. I'm by far no electrickerist either but for what I've read there's a lot of nonsense spread around when it comes to grounding a guitar. One example is the "ground loop" which is widely warned about. Well... If you look at circuit diagrams there may be dozens of ⏚ marks without any telling where they should be connected. Doesn't that already tell that as long as you get them connected to a ground, the route doesn't matter? Same thing with a grounding plate or even more with shielding tape: The shafts of the pot are connected to the tape as is the sleeve of the jack so everything's grounded, yet it's still common to solder a grounding wire from the pickups to the swithc to the pot cups and finally to the jack just in case.

That plate is so neat I'm starting to think I should do the same. Aluminium is easy enough to cut and shape with common tools.

[henrim]

Yeps, I don’t think that ground loops are a big thing in guitars. They are on other contexts like tube amps, though. I haven’t really read anything about the subject specific to guitars. I don’t think there are big grounding issues as long as everything is connected (unless one uses EMG’s. They don’t need to be grounded to strings). I just wanted to make clear that I’m not suggesting that this is the right way to do it.

34 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Aluminium is easy enough to cut and shape with common tools.

Yes. I used 2mm plate this time. I cut it on wood bandsaw and filed edges a bit. I may finish the edges pro-early still. Or maybe not.

Edited September 28, 2022 by henrim
Fixed quote

[Prostheta]

Shellac tends to have a lifetime of about six months, maybe a little more. It's always worth testing to check. It shouldn't be necessary anyway, as Aluminium self-passivates by developing a hard oxide layer pretty much as soon as you expose fresh material. That's is what I would call a high standard for electronics! We rarely see things built this way, purely because it doesn't translate to manufacturing as easily as shielding paint or similar. It's no different to a guitar pedal case shielding the electronics, and it'll work wonderfully.

I think the main issue with wiring point-to-point grounding is that the signals within guitar electronics are of a high enough impedance that any resistance and stray capacitance within the grounding plan can cause potential differences rather than a consistent hard ground like what you'll have here. Grounding is often discussed in unclear terms, with a lot of monkey-see monkey-do reinforcing poor methods. I prefer to treat the inside of a guitar cavity like the outside, sanding and cleaning fully. Copper foil burnished over a smooth surface with solder tacks here and there pretty much do what you've done here. Yours is absolutely over and above the call of duty though!

[henrim]

Finally putting this one together. A nut to file, assembly and some final tweaks and details here and there.

One thing I learned with this one was that this may be very well be the last set-neck guitar I build (this is the second one. I built one in 2009, which I'm currently refinishing as I never liked the original color scheme. Maybe more on that one some time later). Anyway, I originally built this guitar together with my black single cut. Which has a bolt-on neck. The idea was to take the same body shape as base and use different construction on them. That I did and in the end they grew to very different directions. Without playing this one I know I can't compare these two. At least I won't be able to tell what difference the neck-construction has to sound because everything is different in these two. And what I have learned since I started to build these two neck-construction may not be such a big thing sound vice. There is a follow-up guitar build coming which will deal this item more (Named The Verdict).

The other thing is finishing with shellack. This was not my first time doing shellack finish so I kinda new what I was dealing with. I can't say I master French polishing now but I learned a ton about it and if I ever need to do it again I'm confident I can pull it out. Or I can fix a surface with a shellack finish gone bad. All the hard work and what you have is a highly vulnerable finish, though. I was tempted to spray some nitro on it as a protective layer but hesitated doing so. Because I was not sure if it really would have worked. But mostly because it wouldn't have fixed the bigger problem. See, I had nice and shiny almost perfectly level surface. Which I didn't like. Because too shiny. In the beginning I thought I would like to have this guitar glossy but I should have known better because I hardly ever like any glossy surfaces. That conclusion lead to an other journey trying to make shellack nice and smooth satiny lustre. I saw the beauty it had when I did the Frech polish and occassionally went through the surface with 0000 steel wool to get rid of any debris. Although beautiful, even a fingerprint leaves a permanent mark on surface matted that way. I tried on some separate pieces plenty of different methods. Lacquers and waxes. Although I can't say how it holds up I ended up with taming the shellack sheen with fine scotch-pad type abrasive together with my own mix of Carnauba wax/Bees wax/Pine turpentine. If it doesn't work in the long run I can wipe the surface clean and try something else. For now this what it will be.

I also made aluminium pickup rings but for now I prefer going with direct mounting. May be I make an other set at some point and try again rings or covers. Covers were my original plan 10 years ago.