VesQ Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hi, I was working again with my old explorer project on one day. Glued the neck in and routed pickup cavities. After that I realized how damn heavy guitar is. It was around 4.5 kilos / 11 pounds I think. Right now I´m little bit unmotivated to continue with this build because of the weight. So I was thinking to do some chambering for weight relief. The idea is to route chambers from the back but not through the top. Then finish the guitar as usual leaving the chambers visible. Does make this make any sense ? Are there any manufacturers who do this ? Any thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Why not make a jig and plane the back thinner then chamber from the back and glue on a cap for the back instead of the top? That way you wouldn't see the chambers or just make covers out of the same wood and glue them in place after chambered? Unless you want to have the open chambers then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAvenger Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Open chamber might sound ok... your removing wood you know. I'd expect a loss in 'fullness' in the sound though. I'd do it like Juntunen said, however if your worried about finish issues, you could do it differently with a similar effect. It's the same process as making a control cavity with a cover. You need three templates, one to route a ledges for the wood covers to sit on, one for the chambers, and one for cutting the covers. Work to get a tight fit. You can apply a closely matching finish and then carefully glue the covers in making sure not to get any leaking. If you want or need to, you could blend the two finishes together at the seams. I think you could probably get a better sound this way. Expect an increase in unplugged volume as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I would beg to differ. As long as the structural integrity isn't being modified then you still get all the sound. If the changes don't modify the way the strings are free to vibrate, it will sound the same. Glue a guitar to the planet and the sound doesn't change from the increase in mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAvenger Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) You are changing the structural integrity, probably and hopefully negligibly depending on the chambering, BUT more importantly your changing the way the guitar resonates. Glue a guitar to the earth and you'll probably hear little effect, but build one out of aluminum and I'm sure you'll hear the difference. I'm not saying that it's the biggest factor, I'd say that's probably the pickups and wiring followed by the guitar's build quality, but I do believe it is a noticeable factor. Edit: I should have said something more along the lines of 'mild' loss, I didn't mean to infer that you'd loose ALL the character in the sound. Sorry, it does kind of sound that way. Edited March 2, 2012 by DarkAvenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 The part of the guitar between the string anchoring points (tuner, nut, fret, saddle, bridge) is the most important part and defines how the strings vibrate and their dwell "evolves" and hence the instrument's "tone" or (spit) "sustain". Change this structure and you change the character notably. Everything outside of this important part of the structure is far less affective. To answer the OPs points: - Does make this make any sense? Yes. Heavy guitars will knacker your shoulder from playing and carrying in a case. - Are there any manufacturers who do this? Yes. Gibson did a Swiss cheese style Explorer and it looked awful ("Gibson Holy-X"), but they did rout all the way through the body rather than just the rear plus there are holes "interrupting" the solidity of the instrument under the string path. This will certainly affect the instrument. The rear four and bottom horn are okay places to rout without worrying about changing the instrument. http://www.guitarsite.com/news/electric_guitar/introducing_the_gibson_holy_explorer/ - Any thoughts? If the guitar is unmanageable as it stands, then you definitely need to take action or live with the way it is. You have several options for weight reduction, however it is feasible that the guitar's sound may alter marginally (if at all) but no more than the vast majority of people would notice or even care about. Unless you are us in which case we appear to care about it far more than is healthy. Worse things happen at sea. Your mileage may vary. Null where void. DarkAvenger and Herrä Juntunen are correct. It is possible to rabbet the chambers and infill or add a thick veneer over the entire back after taking off a uniform thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VesQ Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I´m not that much concerned about the tone. It is what it is after guitar is finished. Think i´ll just do the chambers first and let the guitar sit for a while to see if it needs back. The idea in the beginning was to make simple guitar which I could finish in decent time span. I guess i´ll have to scrap that idea. My way of doing the chambering would still look better than gibson holy explorer unless I mess something up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Fair enough. Was I meant Vesa, was to use the plan - if you could call it that - of the Gibson chambering. It is a significant weight reduction, however you would experience exacerbated nosedive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I would beg to differ. As long as the structural integrity isn't being modified then you still get all the sound. If the changes don't modify the way the strings are free to vibrate, it will sound the same. Glue a guitar to the planet and the sound doesn't change from the increase in mass. I would beg to differ as well. Changing the mass of the guitar WILL change the way/amount that the strings vibrate. Strum an unplugged electric then touch the headstock to a dresser, the wall , i don't know about the earth- its kinda 'thuddy' , but contact other objects that transfer vibration and it will certainly effect the guitar. Whether or not that translates to different plugged-in tone I don't know. Chambering the back will effect the overall tone Vs. not chambering , but noone can say whether its for the good or the detriment of the tone. To the Op - I say chamber it if you'd like, then add a cover if you need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 That's what I said in essence. All I was referring to was the magnitude of perceivable difference. Touching an instrument to another physical object is the acoustic properties which have no bearing on the properties of the vibrating strings moving through a magnetic field. Unless what is happening to the body modifies or interacts with how the strings are vibrating, it is not part of the equation. That is of course presuming that we are working with non-microphonic pickups....although this part is seldom brought into the "tone" conversation of course.... It is important to remember what is important here. The instrument is heavy and making Vesa feel suicidal. Vitamin D, Pastilli Shots and chambering is the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAvenger Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Touching an instrument to another physical object is the acoustic properties which have no bearing on the properties of the vibrating strings moving through a magnetic field. No. That may be true in an basic view, but that's not really how things are working. The vibrations through the body have an effect on the vibrations in the strings, obviously they are connected. The fundamental note is the dominant wave that travels through strings and thus is picked up by the pickup. Shorter waves travel up and down the string as well called overtones, these are partly defined by multiple variables such as the strings makeup and size, nut material, bridge material and design, the rigidity of the guitar, and among other things the resonance of the guitar. Also, I don't really like to use the term tone very much, I usually just say sound. Whenever someone says tone, a lot of people start picturing this magic quality that can only be defined by a hand full of different woods. I guess it's a bit of a habit, people around here probably know better. Will chambering the body change the sound at least noticeably? Probably. Will it sound like a completely different guitar? Probably not. OP, I'd try it if I were in your situation. I like lighter bodied guitars and most of mine are built to be a bit lighter than 'normal' What are the benefits of adding a cover? Appearance, unplugged volume, maybe a little more 'full' sound. So is that worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ummm. Read my previous post again :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Eddie Van Halen has this miraculous/notorious ability to make a 3 pound carbon-composite steinberger sound EXACTLY like his factory second charvel that he painted, abused, and had a crappy pickup in it. The "put the guitar on the wall and strum it" is not apples-to-apples, as it's causing vibrations in the wall, not just the guitar, not changing the sound of the guitar at all. I'll keep my mouth shut about the rest of it . Edited March 10, 2012 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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