2.5itim's 2nd build

[Prostheta]

It's all down/uphill from here!

[ScottR]

I usually use something like this to carve tops.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/05Y02/pfeil-swiss-made-9-sweep-gouge-10-mm-palm-handled.aspx

But I recently got one of these finger planes, that are much more forgiving and easier to use particularly if you don't have a ton of experience with hand carving.

http://www.amazon.com/Ibex-Violin-Makers-Plane-Blade/dp/B000MNHLR0/ref=sr_1_6/180-8158077-2427727?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1460388487&sr=1-6&keywords=finger+plane

http://www.amazon.com/IA-Lutz-Violin-Plane-7mm/dp/B000ALACPM/ref=sr_1_11/180-8158077-2427727?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1460388487&sr=1-11&keywords=finger+plane

I don't know if that Lutz has a curved sole and blade.......which is important.

SR

[2.5itim]

Thank you very much Scott, I will go pick up that Palm gouge on payday and see if I can make it work for me. If I can't I will try that ibex finger plane. 

As for the Palm gouge what else would y'all recommend buying with it for sharpening? I know that I've seen y'all talk about how sharp they need to be. 

[Prostheta]

Razor. I'll show my blade strops tomorrow if I remember.

[2.5itim]

Please do pros! Razor, like a razor blade?

[ScottR]

I'm pretty fond of this myself.

http://www.rockler.com/leather-power-strop

SR

[Prostheta]

These are my stropping blocks. A length of wood with a strip of leather epoxied on.

 

French cleats so I can drop them onto my wall. The hook for the cleat, plus a stop block to butt up against the wall and....

 

....also to drop into the tool slot of my split Roubo bench's stop block.

 

I "find the bevel" of the chisel so it sits flat on the leather and draw it backwards. The same for the rear. I charge the leather with a little white metal polish, in this case Autosol "chrome polish". Usually a few strokes is all that is required. The give of the leather creates a very slight microbevel or curve in the leading edges which you can see as a bright mirror edge.

 

I currently sharpen chisels on a Tormek to a fine grit and hone them on the leather wheel. These stropping blocks are used primarily for maintaining the edge and giving it an occasional refresh instead of a complete regrind.

[2.5itim]

That was great pros, thank you! Will the blocks work for gouges also since it has the u shape? Or maybe use a wooden dowel with leather wrapped around to get into the bowel? 

Im guessing with buying a new gouge I probably shouldn't have to sharpen it? Hopefully it would come pretty sharp from the manufacturer and then just run it down the strop a few times. 

[psikoT]

7 minutes ago, 2.5itim said:

Im guessing with buying a new gouge I probably shouldn't have to sharpen it? Hopefully it would come pretty sharp from the manufacturer and then just run it down the strop a few times. 

I bought a Pfile one which came already sharp, and the link Scott posted also says is hand sharpen... but I think that's something from Pfeil, not sure about other brands.

[2.5itim]

Awesome thanks dude! The one he posted is the one I'm going to buy since woodcraft is right down the road from me, I had been in there before looking at them and noticed they were sharp I just wasn't sure if sharp is sharp enough lol. 

[2.5itim]

What would be the best way to achieve the recurve around the edges of the body? Maybe a round nose router bit?

[psikoT]

Something like that but with a copy bearing:

 

[2.5itim]

I don't see how that would work tho, that bearing would be riding on the top that I'm trying to cut right?

[Prostheta]

Recurves are best refined by hand, however a bullnose router bit would be a reasonably good way of creating a consistent "groove" to define the depth. The problem is guiding it around the inside of a curve at a set distance. Perhaps an offset template and a router guide bushing....all a little tenuous for a job which is most often carved and set by hand. The amount of work to do 20% of the job is a little out there.

Anybody else got ideas?

[2.5itim]

Oh I didn't realize the recurve was actually done with hand tools also, in that case I'm gonna need to get really good with a gouge lol. I guess that I could pick up a curved scraper and try to achieve it with that. 

[Prostheta]

There's any number of ways you could go about it, including a router. I just think it's a lot of work and prep which could be done in a simpler fashion. A curved scraper would be great, definitely. They define some very nice shapes.

[ScottR]

You can strop a gouge by hand on a flat strop, just rotate as you go. You can also use your gouge to cut a matching groove (both inside and outside grooves) in a block of wood and rub some polishing compound into those for a custom fit strop. And they do come extremely sharp.

Some guys use a flexible sanding disk on a drill to carve the recurve.....but that takes all the fun of having a gouge out of it. Those finger planes do a great job of it too. At it least it did on an un-named mando.

SR

[psikoT]

1 hour ago, 2.5itim said:

I don't see how that would work tho, that bearing would be riding on the top that I'm trying to cut right?

Sorry, I didn't understand what you want to do with that router bit.

[2.5itim]

Thank you Scott, I will see how I can do with the gouge and scraper for the recurve, if I need to try to use that finger plane I will but I just don't really have the extra $70 at the moment. 

Its all good psikot, I did see where one guy used a router bit like the one that you posted that was about 2" diameter that worked really well on a router table. This is what that looked like, which I really like but it's like a $125 bit. 

[ScottR]

I'd be scared to do that much routing on that heavily figured piece of wood. I do believe that is called a German carve.^

There's no reason you cannot carve your re-curve with your gouge. Just take your time, take small cuts--you can always cut more wood out with the next cut, but it's damn hard to put wood back after it's been cut---and always be aware of where your off hand is.

SR

[ScottR]

Here's a visual from a single cut I did a while back that had a carved re-curve.

SR

[2.5itim]

My gosh Scott, that carve looks amazing! I really have my work cut out for me lol. 

I noticed you mentioned about your hat "head into the Texas hill country to pick one up!" Where are you from if you don't mind me asking? I grew up just north of Houston but lived in bandera tx which is in the hill country just west of SA. I sure do miss that place! All of my family is down there, one of these days I need to move back. 

[psikoT]

You really don't need to spend $125 in a bit like that, one which is smaller would work as well. The important thing is that you have to keep the contour clean, even if it's only 10 mm... the rest you do with the gouge or rasping:

[Prostheta]

A 2" cutter is going to be SCARY at any speed. That's a good 1-1/2" of wood and cutter contact at the very least. The tool pressure is going to be immense, plus it has to remove material. Not safe in the slightest.

That is essentially the basis for a wood accelerator, or at least, a wood spinner. I couldn't advocate this unless it were either a large CNC doing the work behind polycarbonate shielding. The workpiece is simply just too small. It needs affixing to a sled to add control back in.

Very scary. Also, big expensive router bit to get a quality one at that size.

[2.5itim]

I see what you're say psikot, thanks for those pics that looks great! Do you have a build thread on that? 

Yeah pros, he said that when ran it sounded like a helicopter was taking off so he bought a speed controller for his router to bring down to a speed that he was comfortable with. Even still would be super sketchy!!