Making My First Machine

[DavetheRave]

Hi Guys,
So in the near future I'm planning on building my first electric (I can already play acoustic).

But I was wondering abut a few things.

Firstly, body wood. I know that Les Pauls are made of mahogany but, while I really like the tone, I find it too heavy. Are there any woods that have the same resonatey warm feeling but that are lighter?
Secondly, pickups. Is it possible to have a guitar that can sound rocky like Matt Bellamy of Muse's guitar (which has a Les Paul type tone) while also having a pickup that sounds more like Dave Gilmour's tone. Would having a humbucker in the bridge position while having a strat pickup in the neck position achieve this? If so, any recommendations for which pickups to get.

The Pickups in Dave Gilmour's guitar are as follows:
Bridge Pickup:   Seymour Duncan® SSL-5 Single-Coil Strat
Middle Pickup:   Custom-Wound Single-Coil Strat
Neck Pickup:   Custom Shop Fat '50s Single-Coil Strat
Which is the most important to his sound?

And Matt Bellamy has a humbucker in bridge position and a single coil pickup in neck position. All designed by Manson Guitars.

Lastly, what type of neck. Is there a benefit of making a through neck guitar or are bolt-ons basically the same. Is it worth the extra work?

Thanks,

DavetheRave

[curtisa]

4 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

Firstly, body wood. I know that Les Pauls are made of mahogany but, while I really like the tone, I find it too heavy. Are there any woods that have the same resonatey warm feeling but that are lighter?

What about chambering a mahogany body for weight relief? Gibson have been doing that for many years.

Heading into controversial territory, but there's some not unreasonable arguments out there that the species of wood used in solid body electric guitars has minimal impact on the plugged-in sound. Choice of pickups, string mounting method (through body, wraparound etc), trem or no trem, scale length, build quality and component fit may (will? could?) mask any residual effects of the choice of timber used.

 

4 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

Secondly, pickups. Is it possible to have a guitar that can sound rocky like Matt Bellamy of Muse's guitar (which has a Les Paul type tone) while also having a pickup that sounds more like Dave Gilmour's tone. Would having a humbucker in the bridge position while having a strat pickup in the neck position achieve this? If so, any recommendations for which pickups to get.

Matt Bellamy isn't afraid to use lots of signal processing on his guitar, so the final product will be determined significantly by what he's plugging in to. Maybe there's some info floating around from Manson Guitars regarding the tonal quality or output of their pickups that can help establishing what a rough equivalent is? He strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn't be adverse to using high-output, high-clarity pickups, but that's just speculation.

 

4 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

The Pickups in Dave Gilmour's guitar are as follows:
...
Which is the most important to his sound?

The man playing the guitar? Just kiddin'...

I usually think of David Gilmour's solo tone as being the Strat neck pickup, but he's been known to use all sorts of stuff over the years and still be completely identifiable as David Gilmour. Mid-80's era Gilmour is (I believe) Strat with EMG SAs and some kind of onboard booster. 90s Gilmour I'm not sure what pickups he would have been using, possibly still the EMGs, but his tone still largely has that Strat neck quality. The 70s albums have more edgy tones which at a guess would be Strat bridge pickup.

I guess that more or less ties in with your philosophy of bridge humbucker + neck single coil for your design.

[DavetheRave]

Hi, thanks for replying.

14 hours ago, curtisa said:

What about chambering a mahogany body for weight relief? Gibson have been doing that for many years.

Would this mean that I would have to make a separate front and back piece for the guitar? Not too keen on that. How does Basswood sound?

 

14 hours ago, curtisa said:

Maybe there's some info floating around from Manson Guitars regarding the tonal quality or output of their pickups that can help establishing what a rough equivalent is? He strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn't be adverse to using high-output, high-clarity pickups, but that's just speculation.

The bridge pickup was described as "a fairly hot Alnico-powered humbucker" and the neck pickup has a lower output and "sound weedy compared to the power of the bridge pickup". Found this on musicradar.com. So I would guess something high power would do the trick, which means a lower resistance?

17 hours ago, curtisa said:

I usually think of David Gilmour's solo tone as being the Strat neck pickup, but he's been known to use all sorts of stuff over the years and still be completely identifiable as David Gilmour. Mid-80's era Gilmour is (I believe) Strat with EMG SAs and some kind of onboard booster. 90s Gilmour I'm not sure what pickups he would have been using, possibly still the EMGs, but his tone still largely has that Strat neck quality. The 70s albums have more edgy tones which at a guess would be Strat bridge pickup.

 

I guess lots of tone is actually in the playing. The pickups I gave were from the David Gilmour Signature Strat designed only a few years ago so they might not be what he actually used. According to gilmourish.com he had the neck and middle pickups from a '71 bullet truss rod Strat in June 1973 and a Seymour Duncan custom wound SSL-1C bridge pickup (installed late 1979). Presumably a pickup similar to either the EGM SA or '71 neck would have a higher resistance? 

I saw that the EMGs are active. As I am planning on making my pickups, how much more difficult would it make it?

And of course you can't have Dave Gilmour without having a phaser. Is it worth mounting the phaser in the guitar or not? It seems quite a lot of work. How much does he actually use the phaser?

Thanks,

David

 

 

 

[curtisa]

2 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

Would this mean that I would have to make a separate front and back piece for the guitar?

Yes.

What about making the body thinner? Assuming you're not building a historically accurate Les Paul (which your initial enquiries seem to suggest), there's no reason a mahogany bodied instrument needs to be 2" thick.

 

2 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

How does Basswood sound?

Your question is too vague. How does a 4-cylinder engine drive? There's too many variables that determine how an instrument made of a particular timber will sound once you plug it in.

Perhaps the questions you could be asking are along the lines of 'what differences are there between mahogany and basswood', or 'what's available for me to purchase'. Basswood is  softer than Mahogany by about half, and about two-thirds the weight. Some people suggest that Basswood being softer may impart a warmer tone (warmer than what?), but that could be all thrown out the window if you decide to install some bright, high-output pickups.

 

2 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

The bridge pickup was described as "a fairly hot Alnico-powered humbucker" and the neck pickup has a lower output and "sound weedy compared to the power of the bridge pickup".

Most pickup manufacturer's will categorise thier pickups by output and magnet type, so that gives you something useful to start with. Maybe something like a Seymour Duncan JB or Alternative 8, or Dimarzio Breed or Gravity Storm?

 

2 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

So I would guess something high power would do the trick, which means a lower resistance?

...

Presumably a pickup similar to either the EGM SA or '71 neck would have a higher resistance? 

If we're talking passive pickups the resistance will generally be higher for a higher output. More turns of wire = greater output = more length of wire wound on the pickup = higher resistance of coil.

EMGs and other active pickups utilise built-in circuitry which boosts pickup output while reducing apparent resistance.

Comparing the resistance of pickups as a measure of output can be misleading

 

Quote

I saw that the EMGs are active. As I am planning on making my pickups, how much more difficult would it make it?

 

Very. If you want active pickups you're better off buying a set than trying to out-play EMG at their own game, particuarly if this is your first build.

 

3 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

And of course you can't have Dave Gilmour without having a phaser. Is it worth mounting the phaser in the guitar or not? It seems quite a lot of work

Personally I wouldn't becuase, as you say, it is a lot of work to install just one specific effect (plus batteries) when you could just have the pedal on the floor.

 

3 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

How much does he actually use the phaser?

Ummm. I dunno. The famous 4-note refrain in 'Shine on you Crazy Diamond' part 1 could be a phaser. I think the solo in 'Any Colour You Like' is a phaser set to a fast speed. The rhythm guitar part in 'Breathe'...I'm not entirely sure he uses a phasor that much, to be honest? I mean, he's known for using one, but not all the time.

[DavetheRave]

Hi,

15 hours ago, curtisa said:

What about making the body thinner? Assuming you're not building a historically accurate Les Paul (which your initial enquiries seem to suggest), there's no reason a mahogany bodied instrument needs to be 2" thick.

No, that wasn't the plan. I think I might just stick to having on piece of wood as the body

 

15 hours ago, curtisa said:

Perhaps the questions you could be asking are along the lines of 'what differences are there between mahogany and basswood', or 'what's available for me to purchase'. Basswood is  softer than Mahogany by about half, and about two-thirds the weight. Some people suggest that Basswood being softer may impart a warmer tone (warmer than what?), but that could be all thrown out the window if you decide to install some bright, high-output pickups.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think I might just use whatever we have lying around (we have lots of wood). Just cut down an elderberry tree - maybe it would be interesting to see how it sounds. As far as I know it's not a usual guitar wood. 

 

15 hours ago, curtisa said:

If we're talking passive pickups the resistance will generally be higher for a higher output. More turns of wire = greater output = more length of wire wound on the pickup = higher resistance of coil.

Right, I've watched some videos on how to wire pickups etc. I'll do some more research. 

And I think I'll stick with passive pickups - they seem to be fine for everyone else!

Also I think I'll just keep the controls simple. One tone and one volume looks like a good, simple option.

Are most pickups wired in parallel or in series? Presumable, in series you would get a higher output.

 

Thanks

[Norris]

15 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

Just cut down an elderberry tree - maybe it would be interesting to see how it sounds. As far as I know it's not a usual guitar wood. 

Guitar wood is usually seasoned for a couple of years. It would be very unusual to use "green" wood for a build, as it can and does move around a bit as it cures. I have some logs from an old plum tree and they have split all over the place as it's dried out. It's got beautiful purple/brown heartwood, but unfortunately is only good for one thing - fuel for my wood burner 

[curtisa]

17 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

Are most pickups wired in parallel or in series? Presumable, in series you would get a higher output

Pickups can be wired in series or parallel if you wish. That's more a decision as to what tonal options you want to include with the switching. For any given set of pickups series wiring will generally give a higher output than parallel.

 

2 hours ago, Norris said:

Guitar wood is usually seasoned for a couple of years. It would be very unusual to use "green" wood for a build, as it can and does move around a bit as it cures. I have some logs from an old plum tree and they have split all over the place as it's dried out. It's got beautiful purple/brown heartwood, but unfortunately is only good for one thing - fuel for my wood burner 

Yes, good point. The last thing you want is to use unseasoned wood in your build only to discover a few months down the track that the body has warped and split

[ScottR]

This is a great conversation. The first thing that comes to mind re the Gilmour sound is his use of multiple effects. He shapes sound like nobody's business.

I always feel that if you are going with a humbucker and a strat type single, you ought to go ahead and go with two strat type singles. so much of the the strat tone comes from using the middle pick-up in combo.

SR

[DavetheRave]

8 hours ago, Norris said:

It would be very unusual to use "green" wood for a build, as it can and does move around a bit as it cures. I have some logs from an old plum tree and they have split all over the place as it's dried out.

6 hours ago, curtisa said:

Yes, good point. The last thing you want is to use unseasoned wood in your build only to discover a few months down the track that the body has warped and split

 

Good point. Maybe I won't use that then.

1 hour ago, ScottR said:

I always feel that if you are going with a humbucker and a strat type single, you ought to go ahead and go with two strat type singles. so much of the the strat tone comes from using the middle pick-up in combo.

 

I was thinking about adding a third pickup myself. How do the neck and middle pickups differ in terms of output etc.?

How about adding phase switches to these pickups? Is that hard? The diagrams all look relatively simple. But again, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Also, if three pickups will happen then an individual on/off switch for each pickups seems like the best option - get the maximum out of the guitar. Which should be relatively simple.

[curtisa]

3 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

I was thinking about adding a third pickup myself. How do the neck and middle pickups differ in terms of output etc.?

Assuming the same two pickups were installed at the same distance from the strings, and ignoring the tonal differences of the position of the two pickups (neck = warmer, middle = edgier). I'd expect the neck pickup to be slightly louder than the middle. But you could move one pickup closer to the strings than the other and then it would have more apparent output. Or use a pickup with a hotter output and then it would be the louder of the two.

 

4 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

How about adding phase switches to these pickups? Is that hard? The diagrams all look relatively simple. But again, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Not too hard. One switch and a couple of wires per pickup is pretty much it.

 

4 hours ago, DavetheRave said:

Also, if three pickups will happen then an individual on/off switch for each pickups seems like the best option - get the maximum out of the guitar. Which should be relatively simple.

Sounds a little like Brian May's Red Special. I believe he uses one phase switch and one on/off switch for each of the three pickups he has installed.