Tear out during fretboard reloval

[Rudy]

Hey

I’m replacing a truss rod in an 1974 Yamaha acoustic guitar and during the removal of the fretboard I had some tear out from the body of the guitar. 
 

I would love some suggestions on how to deal with it. It’s maybe a couple of inches squared in size. 
 

thanks 
 

 

[nakedzen]

Photos would help?

[Bizman62]

1 hour ago, nakedzen said:

Photos would help?

One can't post photos until having posted a few posts to prove they're not spammers.

However there's workarounds: Using some online service for hosting photos works, even Google Photos.

Another option could be (I can't verify if it works for a new member) creating a Member gallery and upload and link the photos from there:

 

[Rudy]

Hey. Let me see if this works. 
 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZF9u4UvpoId9EKwb7fvzL6MvvgUKgEci/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[Rudy]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:16 AM, Bizman62 said:

One can't post photos until having posted a few posts to prove they're not spammers.

However there's workarounds: Using some online service for hosting photos works, even Google Photos.

Another option could be (I can't verify if it works for a new member) creating a Member gallery and upload and link the photos from there:

 

Thanks for the help. I managed to add a link to my Google drive with a photo. I can add more if needed. 

[Bizman62]

You should be able to create a link showing the actual photo from your Google drive, for now I just copied the picture for others to see without opening the link,

If it's only place A you're talking about I might leave it just as it is. You can try to glue the missing piece back in if you could get it off the fretboard, or you can tidy the spot and put a slice of veneer to fill the gap. In any case you should scrape the fretboard clean and level before putting it back as fitting tore out pieces like that blindly is a mission impossible.

Spot B looks like it's just the rosette ring lifted off the slot, but if there's a slice missing all along from the neck slot to the rosette, then filling and leveling that area is recommendable. I can't quite see if it's just the edge of the lacquer or have you managed to peel a long slice off half the width of the fretboard.

Anyhow, the majority of the top under the fretboard should be level before gluing the fretboard back. Small spots missing a thin sliver can be left as is, areas large enough to cause the fretboard to bend have to be leveled. Just don't make any patches taller than the original gluing surface!

 

[Rudy]

25 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

You should be able to create a link showing the actual photo from your Google drive, for now I just copied the picture for others to see without opening the link,

If it's only place A you're talking about I might leave it just as it is. You can try to glue the missing piece back in if you could get it off the fretboard, or you can tidy the spot and put a slice of veneer to fill the gap. In any case you should scrape the fretboard clean and level before putting it back as fitting tore out pieces like that blindly is a mission impossible.

Spot B looks like it's just the rosette ring lifted off the slot, but if there's a slice missing all along from the neck slot to the rosette, then filling and leveling that area is recommendable. I can't quite see if it's just the edge of the lacquer or have you managed to peel a long slice off half the width of the fretboard.

Anyhow, the majority of the top under the fretboard should be level before gluing the fretboard back. Small spots missing a thin sliver can be left as is, areas large enough to cause the fretboard to bend have to be leveled. Just don't make any patches taller than the original gluing surface!

 

Thanks for your reply. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15zk-uphifzRiPSgl69eQG-5cH2cbTo-O/view?usp=drivesdk

here is another photo to show a more complete story of what’s going on. I tried to add the photo with the URL but it didn’t work, so I appreciate you adding it to your reply  

It was a challenge getting the fretboard off, the glue just didn’t seem to soften and as you can see things went badly at near the sound hole.  
 

Could I use a wood filler to build it up? Or would that be unadvisable? 
 

 

 

 

[Bizman62]

That is a solid spruce top so for a "real" fix using real wood for filling most of the missing parts would be the proper thing to do, especially for an expensive guitar. If still possible, you could try to apply some heat to the splinter and try to get it off in one piece. Gluing that piece in place might already be enough for a large enough flat area for the fretboard end.

For a very cheap guitar I might be tempted to use wood putty and in such a small and stiff area it might not even ruin the tone. But as a learning excercise I'd use some sort of wood. It doesn't have to be spruce for such a thin layer. As the fretboard already is of another wood a veneer of any wood should do - well, obviously not balsa or something similar, but any solid wood should do.

 

[Bizman62]

1 hour ago, Rudy said:

I tried to add the photo with the URL but it didn’t work

 

Did you use the OtherMedia button down right?

[Andyjr1515]

As long as there are no lumps that will lift the fretboard at the body end and prevent the neck from fully seating in the heel block, then personally I wouldn't even worry about filling it. 

On my own acoustic builds, I don't glue the overhang.  Acoustically it is not a critical area and on most acoustics, the neck angle means that the overhang is rarely flat against the body for the whole length.  On an acoustic, the fit of the neck into the neck block is critical - and especially for a dovetail joint. My logic is that if the overhang is hard against the body, then it is likely it is affecting the position and tightness of the neck to body joint, which would not be a good thing.  

[Bizman62]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

On my own acoustic builds, I don't glue the overhang.

Guess the overhang in your builds doesn't touch the top?

[Andyjr1515]

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Guess the overhang in your builds doesn't touch the top?

It's there or thereabouts because the angle created by the neck angle is counteracted to a certain extent by the radius of the top...but if I have a choice of a teeny gap or the fretboard pressing down on the top then I go for the teeny gap...

It's weird because it's an issue that is almost never referred to in building an acoustic...and yet every builder will come across the conundrum    It's not something that violin builders have to worry about (but which serves as a good illustration of what I'm talking about) 

 

 

[Rudy]

4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

That is a solid spruce top so for a "real" fix using real wood for filling most of the missing parts would be the proper thing to do, especially for an expensive guitar. If still possible, you could try to apply some heat to the splinter and try to get it off in one piece. Gluing that piece in place might already be enough for a large enough flat area for the fretboard end.

For a very cheap guitar I might be tempted to use wood putty and in such a small and stiff area it might not even ruin the tone. But as a learning excercise I'd use some sort of wood. It doesn't have to be spruce for such a thin layer. As the fretboard already is of another wood a veneer of any wood should do - well, obviously not balsa or something similar, but any solid wood should do.

 

Yeah, this guitar has no sentimental value and didn’t cost me that much, so I’m not too concerned. 
 

It’s a good learning experience and I’m enjoying the process and learning about it. So I really do appreciate your input. 

[Rudy]

9 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

As long as there are no lumps that will lift the fretboard at the body end and prevent the neck from fully seating in the heel block, then personally I wouldn't even worry about filling it. 

On my own acoustic builds, I don't glue the overhang.  Acoustically it is not a critical area and on most acoustics, the neck angle means that the overhang is rarely flat against the body for the whole length.  On an acoustic, the fit of the neck into the neck block is critical - and especially for a dovetail joint. My logic is that if the overhang is hard against the body, then it is likely it is affecting the position and tightness of the neck to body joint, which would not be a good thing.  

Very interesting. I was really worried that I had made a lot of work for myself or effected the integrity of the neck.