NUT 1st. fret Opinions Welcome!

[woodfab]

After making a few guitar I always found that getting the nut at it's lowest point was such a pain.

So back in 1976 I used a fret as the first speaking point instead of the nut, I since found that some other guitar makers also do the same.

Makes cutting the nut so simple and the action is at it's lowest.

Plus it makes bending the 1st. few notes easer.

 

[henrim]

I haven’t built one nor ever owned one with zero fret. But the more I think about it the more I want to try. So following.

Structurally I think the good thing about nut is that it is easy to swap if worn. Or if higher action is preferred.

I’m very much interested in hearing how it affects playability and tuning and how you decide the position in relation to nut. 

[Bizman62]

A "zero fret" has been commonly although not widely used at least since the 1930's - the Selmer Maccaferri guitars played by Django Reinhard had them. Other big names like Gibson and Gretsch have used a zero fret on some models during the years as well. And many others, it's a cost effective way to get low action so many cheap brands adopted it. As you say, it makes cutting the nut easy.

Yours seems to be quite far from the nut, the opposite can be seen in the aftermarket version called Zero Glide that includes a thinner nut and a zero fret to be fitted in place of the original nut. I suppose that a far away zero fret may affect tuning stability if there's an extra angle at the nut adding one more friction point. Then again it's easy to carve grooves at the end of the fretboard for a straight string line from the zero fret to the tuner.

As per wear, Brian May had to replace his zero fret after 40 years.

17 minutes ago, henrim said:

Structurally I think the good thing about nut is that it is easy to swap if worn. Or if higher action is preferred.

I'd say on the contrary! It takes quite a while to make a nut perfect whereas changing the zero fret is mostly just a matter of replacing and filing the ends. Unless you use a heavy steel hammer to reshape the fret wire the action should be accurate enough without recrowning.

[henrim]

28 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

It takes quite a while to make a nut perfect whereas changing the zero fret is mostly just a matter of replacing and filing the ends

Yes, that's right in luthier's perspective. But not what I meant. I guess what I'm saying is more about semantics. Structurally I see nut as a replaceable part. It can be lifted from it's slot (unless someone glued it in with epoxy or did something equally stupid). A fret is repairable. It has to be pulled off with a risk of harming the fretboard. With nut you have much finer control on action. Albeit in real world a zero fret should give you what is preferred in most cases with much less effort. 

But if it's true what you say about Brian May, I reckon my point is moot.

[henrim]

Well, I guess you can't generalise based on that case

”I replaced BM’s zero fret around 2005 . . . and it was shagged beyond belief!! It was so badly worn it was virtually worn right through, and his open g sounded awful. . . . All the other frets are original, it has never been dressed or re fretted, and it’s pretty tough to play past the 12th. I don’t know how he does what he does. He’s not a mere mortal!”

https://hazeguitars.com/blog/brian-may-and-the-zero-fret-controversy

[woodfab]

I've played my guitar with the zero fret for over ten years and have not found any problems with it,

[Professor Woozle]

Fyldes have zero frets, and here's Roger Bucknall' take on why - https://www.fyldeguitars.com/zero-frets.html

[henrim]

40 minutes ago, Professor Woozle said:

here's Roger Bucknall' take on why

He says:

“It's difficult and time consuming to do properly, but I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t think it worthwhile.”

So, in his opinion it is not as straightforward as to hammer one extra fret in and be done with it. I’m beginning to see why.

Anyway, I’m tempted to try zero fret on my next project. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by henrim
Fixed text formatting

[curtisa]

I think the idea that the zero fret needs to be tuned in such a way that the string angle behind the fret equals the typical angle exhibited when fretting any other fret (as per Roger's comments linked above) is possibly over-thinking the implementation of it, but to each their own.

I've used zero frets for a few years now and I think their benefits and ease of installation far outweigh the effort in installing and fine tuning a traditional nut. At the very least I'd encourage everyone to at least give it a try.

I've often wondered why there's even a discussion as to whether or not a zero fret wears quicker than other frets. We don't seem to have the same issue with wear on a bone or plastic nut, and presumably being softer material than the frets they should wear faster still. It may be possible that (perceived) rapid wear on a zero fret is exacerbated in situations where the guitar has a trem and/or a traditional headstock, and the strings can slide across the face of the nut as they are tuned/detuned. Brian May would have gone through thousands sets of strings on the Red Special and is known to uses his trem fairly judiciously while playing. Perhaps the wear is more as a result of the strings 'sawing' through the zero fret rather than sliding across the crown laterally (eg, finger vibrato). I'd be curious to see what the wear on a zero fret on, say a headless guitar would be in 20-30 years, where the string cannot slip over the zero fret much because it's so short and only really exerts downward pressure on the crown.

[Bizman62]

4 hours ago, curtisa said:

I think the idea that the zero fret needs to be tuned in such a way that the string angle behind the fret equals the typical angle exhibited when fretting any other fret (as per Roger's comments linked above) is possibly over-thinking the implementation of it, but to each their own.

I read that too and in my logic that may pose issues similar to a too shallow neck break angle which can be a real problem if the strings jump off the nut slots. Mr. Bucknall's and his clients' playing style may be gentle enough to avoid such issues, who knows...

Regarding wear... Lateral wear might exist more the farther from the nut the zero fret is seated, especially if there's string pressure on the nut as well. On a ZeroGlide the only wear should be longitudinal only from  the trem and bending.

What about using a stainless steel fret as the zero fret even if using nickel silver for the rest? That would take care of the extra wear until all frets have to be replaced. I know, this is a can of worms: Some players will definitely hear the difference in open chords similarly as they can hear the difference between bone and metal.