rhoads56 Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Ok, whatever, but your claims are unproven, so therefore opinion, and not fact. If PRS slathers a thick "glass-like" finish on the instrument, you're going to lose resonance. If you don't believe me, pick up an old ES-175 with a thin finish and compare the sustain to a new hollow or semi PRS. I have, and it is my opinion that the thinner-finished guitar has better sustain and volume. It's nothing scientific, just my ear. I dont understand how you can compare a hollow PRS with a ES175. Two TOTALLY different instruments. Secondly, how many coats does PRS put on a guitar? LESS than the ES175... Correct me if im wrong, but the ES175 is a nitro finish, versus poly for the PRS. I think you'll find (and i have considerable experience with both) that you'll need ten times the nitro to get the same finish. Ive got 40 coats on a jackson (nitro), and the finish is no where near the thickness of the finish on my Gibson guitars. Of course, that doesnt mean the poly isnt thicker, maybe it is. My experience in spraying nitro and poly within my profession of the last 12 years, has said that poly looks thicker than it actually is, and nitro doesnt look as thick as it actually is. Here's what I know. Some of my favorite artists who recorded my favorite music used instruments with incredibly thin finishes. John Lennon, with his refinished Epi Casino, Stevie Ray Vaughan, with almost no finish, Bruce Springsteen, etc. The most highly revered violin in the world, the Stradivarius, has an incredibly thin finish and some of the most resonant wood ever put into an acoustic instrument. It's the combo of the wood and the finish that makes it all work. Thankyou Maybe a thin finish wouldn't make as big of a difference with a solid body. I don't know. All I was trying to do was help someone out and throw in my nickel's worth of free advice. If you don't agree, fine, but having you and your buddies put me down is just stupid and really immature. If you want to reply and "kick my ass", go ahead. If that's what it takes for you and your buddy to get off, go for it. Next time you have a question in the forum and I know the answer, I'll just go ahead and let you wait for someone else since my opinion doesn't count here. You came across as arrogant, and a know it all. Im here to save the kiddies from incorrect info. I dont claim to know everything, but i know opinions arent proven fact, generally... Fact is you have no proof to back up your claims, only your opinion on what sounds you prefer. Those tones dont appeal to myself, but i aint going to tell you every musical instument should be painted white with black pinstripes because i like the sound coming from a certain guitar. Im not convinced that poly has the effect on a hollow/semi body as you state, however thats my opinion. Im also a firm believer in technology, and the ability of humans to invent products that exceed natures ability to do things. Im not for one second saying that poly is better than nitro, but how do we know it isnt? I will go as far as saying that poly is stronger than nitro, and isnt that a desirable characteristic? If you want to reply and "kick my ass", go ahead. If that's what it takes for you and your buddy to get off, go for it. Now you are simply being pathetic. If you dont like being challenged, especially when you have (had) a post count of ONE, then i suggest you leave now. You havent proven yourself, we dont have a clue who you are, and yet you want everyone to listen to your opinion of the tones you like, and use that as gospel... Most people start off just lurking, then introducting themselves, before coming in all high and mighty. Im not here to pick on anyone. I dont team up with any other members to kick anyones butt. If you make unproven claims i will question you. Simple really, ive done the same thing to my "buddy" weezer, and many others, many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Personally, I really don't care if you or anyone else listens to what I have to say. All I saw was someone who asked a simple question and all they got was crap about asking it in the wrong forum. Second, I mentioned the tones I like because most people know what Lennon, Vaughan, or Springsteen sound like. I apologize if I sounded arrogant in my first post, it was not my intention. If you had mentioned that when you "challenged" me, I probably would have said so before. Needless to say, I've been lurking around for a few weeks and I just decided to finally post something. If you want to know more about me, I've been playing the guitar for about 10 years now. I've been tinkering with and repairing guitars for about the same amount of time. I have played in a few bands and sometimes I help out some friends with guitar duties at various live performances in Kansas City. I'm no virtuoso and I just play because I love to play. I went to the website in your signature and your guitars are absolutely stunning. I hope that my luthiery skills will someday be as good. For now, I was just trying to throw out my opinion and ideas. I figured throwing something useful in as opposed to just telling the guy to go to another forum was the thing to do. For my next 300 posts, I'll only say things like "Oooh...nice wood" or "Go to the hollow body forum, you idiot!" Yes, Hotrock, I do agree too that this is just a fart in the jacuzzi. Use crappy parts, you get a crappy guitar. But damn, three layers of wood filler topped by three layers of polyester can't be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Well, now that we have that issue resolved... Here are some pics of my newest project. I am making two identical guitars. If they turn out decent, I'm selling one to a friend. Here are a couple of issues I would like some advice on. One of my tops has a fracture that runs right through the area where I have the f-hole drawn. Once the top is glued down, it shouldn't be a problem. Should I go ahead and break it a re-glue it or leave it alone? Also, my friend wants a deep green stain applied to the top. Should I try bleaching the leaopardwood or will the green show up as is? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrock Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 It's not in the area of advice that you're asking for but..... .....If you're cutting the 'f' holes, use a template to sand them so they're both identical. I spent ages trying to get them to match perfectly and I'm still not 100% happy Good luck dude, it's/they're looking good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 This is eerily reminiscent of a vile exchange on the USAGC forum awhile back... rhodes56 and 'fullerplast'...separated at birth? or the same guy? I am both scientist and guitarist; you won't find much science when it comes to things like finish thickness and sound (not to mention frequency response of different wood types, fingerboard woods, guitar mass, etc etc). Fact is, it is not difficult at all to envision the right tests to check such things, but most people in the best position to do those tests are in the luthery business more for enjoyment than anything else, and are mostly surviving on a shoestring and so can't afford to engineer and perform the proper tests (even if they wanted to). Somewhere back in the Gibson or Fender archival file cabinets there are probably some manila folders with some of that data, but just go ahead and try to get someone to find it for you. Just like the left brain ain't the right, opinion is not evidence. But the opinion of experienced luthiers and players is all you got so don't knock it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 This is eerily reminiscent of a vile exchange on the USAGC forum awhile back... rhodes56 and 'fullerplast'...separated at birth? or the same guy? Whos fullerplast, and whats USAGC?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Oh yeah, nice job on the ES thinline! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Sorry...should be USACG (USA Custom Guitars). It is a great company (the owner Tommy is a super cool guy with great service) with great product and lots of available options at no upcharge. That particular forum doesn't see a whole lot of traffic, they are more uptight about a lot of stuff, but it is good for certain things. "Fullerplast" was a guy who posted there also looking for data in guitarology (the "science" of guitars), in much the same style. He got run after ~8 posts... NWTH (no wish to hijack)... I think it is safe to assume that, all else being equal, thinner = more resonance (be it wood or finish); balance that against wood type, strength, weight, bridge type, pups, etc etc. Huge parameter space (which is I guess why you can get so many different sounds from a guitar). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 More progress this weekend. It took me 2 hours to make an edge guide for my router so I could cut the truss rod channel and 10 minutes to make the cut. Necks Here is the start of carving the top. I used a router to do the rough cut work Routed top and a chisel and sander to smooth it out. Smoothing it out Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Kings X that looks greaty! As for the poly vs nitro...sounds like he quoted an Ed Roman rant. Personally, tung oil, tru oil or beeswax is a valid arguement against poly/laquer, but whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Here's the top top after I sanded it. Leaopardwood aint the easiest wood to sand, plus it makes me itch. That can't be good. Close up of the grain. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Doh! Links not found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Fixed the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 I love it! Here's an up-front shot for the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Keep in mind, the final shaping will not happen until it is on the guitar. Thanks for hosting it, Drak. I am running low on credits at easypic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Working on the neck: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Added the fretboard to the neck. Its a Stewmac radiused maple fretboard. I discovered that it is better to glue the fretboard before shaping the back. I had a hard time getting everything clamped down the way I wanted. I didn't realize my son was in the picture until after I uploaded it. Everyone say hi to Isaiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Hi Isaiah! (P.S. Nice lookin' guitar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Nice job! A real interesting combo of top & fingerboard wood; not sure I agree with the headstock shape, but I'm a real stick-in-the-mud Gibson purist when it comes to ES-types, so don't listen to me. But I do want one of those breakfast bars...mmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 not sure I agree with the headstock shape I don't like it either. I'm building two of these guitars at the same time and my friend is buying one (basically paying for the materials). He designed the peghead. Mine will be more like a standard ES peghead. BTW, as you can see in the picture, I still have to glue another piece of wood at the top of the peghead to extend it out a little more. The last tuning machine will go through that piece. I plan on putting an ebony veneer (as thick as I can get away with) over the whole thing. Should it be structurally sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I wouldn't call myself an expert, but if you're unsure about it being structurally sound, then veneer the front and the back on the headstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Its going to want to be a bit more than a veneer to hold the string tension. End grain joins are never strong. I would go as far as routing two strips into the headstock for extra strength. Whats with the super wide truss rod slot?? How big is the cover going to be for that? Will the tuners miss the cover?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings_x Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 I dug up this old thread to post progress on the semi-hallow I've been building. I've made a few mistakes along the way but have recovered. I strung it up the other day and was pretty stoked. I still need to have the frets leveled but it sounded good. http://easypichost.com/Mike/thumbnails (the first 2 pic are of the first guitar I built. the "carved" top is the top I'll use on my guitar) I'm building this one for a friend. He wanted it green which I think is a travesty but it is growing on me. And the peghead shape is his design as well, I don't like it. I have the wood and parts for a second version of this guitar that I will start after this one is done. The wood parts are already cut out and ready to glue. Now all I need is time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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