Recording on the move!!

[Stalefish]

Hi.. My band's looking to recording our first demo so I'm trying to figure out a way to do it.. The method I have at hand right now is to use a mixer straight into my trusty MD player.. Thing is that this takes a lot longer than it should simply because we can't change the mix after it's been recorded..

So.. What I'm wondering is whether it's possible to have a mobile recording studio of sorts.. I'm thinking a laptop with software and an external multi-i/o sort of device with 8 or so inputs, preferably with some XLR inputs.. Either that or one of those digital recording mixers.. To make matters worse, I'm on a bit of a budget right now (new project ax in the planning)... Less than US$500..

Suggestions?? Even if it blows my budget.. Thanks!!

(I'm read the pinned thread on rec equipment.. Couldn't really find what I was looking for.. Maybe I missed it???)

Oh, we'd be recording a bass, electric and drums at a shot.. Vocals can always be added on top.. I could scrounge up the mics from somewhere (I've got friends too, you know..) so they're not too much of a problem.. Thanks again!!

[weezerboy]

bossbr532 , then save up for some mics

just my thoughts, as i own both and love them , plus the boss isn't that pricey

[darren wilson]

A decently fast laptop with an external FireWire interface would be the best, most versatile way to go. But for your budget, you might be able to pick up a used ADAT machine or something smaller and less fragile than a laptop.

I don't really like those all-in-one mixer/hard disk recorder things because their interfaces are always so bad. But if you want to just get something recorded and then dump it to a DAW later for editing, they might not be a bad way to go.

[GregP]

Laptops are powerful enough to be used for mobile recording now. You seem to already have the right idea... USB (some are USB 2.0 now) external soundcard with XLR inputs and you're set.

Problem is budget. Cheaper used laptops still seem to be largely Celeron, which are inappropriate for most recording applications.

Without itemizing everything, I can tell you right off the top that unless you stumble upon some real bargains, you'll have a very difficult time doing a mobile solution with a laptop for that budget.

Although I usually recommend computers for recording, for budget mobile recording, you're better off with a portastudio-type thing.

Greg.

[Stalefish]

Damn, that was fast..

I think I forgot to mention that I already have a laptop.. Sorry.. Does that change the situation??

Thanks for the responses so far, though..

Pardon my ignorance but what's a DAW??

[GregP]

Ignorance isn't something that needs pardoning! "DAW" stands for "Digital Audio Workstation", which can theoretically be any recording setup that's BASED in the digital world (rather than analogue), but most of the time when people say "DAW" they are referring to using computers for recording.

If you already have a powerful enough laptop (if you're only recording 2 tracks at a time, even a Celeron, which I sort of dismissed, would be adequate), yes, that changes the situation greatly. At that point in time, you can get a reasonable budget mixer (Yamaha and Behringer do decent mixers for a low price) and a USB soundcard solution (The Tascam US-122 looks amazing, if you only need 2 inputs-- and it comes with a nice software bundle. Otherwise the M-Audio Audiophile USB is a popular choice) and you're off to the races.

Greg.

[asm]

sound--->small 6 or 8 channel Behringer mixer--->mbox or Maudio interface--->computer

400-600$

problem (obvious) on smaller end stuff is the amount of tracks you can record at once, so you can go 6 or 8 in the mixer then 2 out to an mbox. so drums and bass on one track, guitars on other, then dub voices.

dont know how many the mAudio brings in, probably 2-3

my school has 2 protools|HD interfaces and a ProControl 24 board

16 tracks can be recorded at once

[Guitarfrenzy]

I know someone who just bought a 3 GHz Laptop and has the new Omnistudio USB and it works great. He can record 4 tracks at once with ease, even with tons of real time effects, and tracks playing back. I have 2 Delta 1010 systems on my desktop and works great for the price, but was real interested in just how well his system works, since I'd love to have a better portable system. The only thing I'd want to know is if you could run 2 of them for a total of 8 in's, since I'd want more mixdown options after I recorded.

[GregP]

Are you planning on using a lot of external gear for mixdowns? A lot of people swear by it, so it's a great plan; however, for the project musician, you can get more than adequate results by staying in the digital domain, in which case the number of inputs on your soundcard won't affect the number of tracks you can mix down.

For the budget recording artist who looks into the small Behringer mixers, I would strongly recommend the 8-channel one as a minimum, not because of the number of channels, but because it has slightly more sophisticated in/out options, as well as phantom power, which the 6-channel mixer does not have.

I dunno if I'm ever going to have a condenser mic requiring phantom power, but for an extra $10 for that AND better in/out options, it was a no-brainer.

Cheers,

Greg

[Stalefish]

If my bands records using the Behringer mixer and use 8 tracks simultaneously, we'd need 8 inputs to a computer to record on 8 different tracks (digitally) to allow us to mix after recording, wouldn't we?? I'm getting confused.. Would I be able to mix after recording if I only have 1 input to my soundcard??

[Little Bit]

Post pulled by author.

[GregP]

[Edit: heh, he beat me to it, and said in 2 lines what I said in 100, although the actual limit would be *2* tracks at a time, rather than 1.]

I meant that question for GuitarFrenzy, however to help stave off confusion:

No matter how many channels your mixer has, it will likely still only output a stereo signal; and if it's one that can output more channels, you'll still have the OPTION to output a stereo (2 channels) signal.

A soundcard in your price range will likely only have 2 inputs, which match with the 2 outputs of the mixer; so, you're still only recording 2 'tracks' at any given time.

Your recording options with this entry-level setup:

1. For live recordings (ie. concerts and performances), you'll just be recording in stereo. You'll have to decide in advance where you want each instrument to 'sit' in the stereo mix. There are some relatively basic stand-bys if you need suggestions. If most of your recordings are going to be performance/live, I would invest in as large a mixer as you can budget for.

2. For 'studio' recordings, you can record as many tracks as you want, and mix as many tracks as you want, but you can only record 2 tracks -simultaneously-. For example:

* Drums: you decide to record a drummer. You mic the kit with as many microphones as you want, feed them into the mixer, and then decide where each microphone should be in the stereo spectrum, and at what levels. You then output from the mixer to your soundcard in stereo, and record the drum track.

Alternatively, you can program your drums with any decent sequencer, or use any number of 'free' loops out there, or use a drum machine or even a keyboard's sometimes-crappy drum tracks, if you're desperate. None of these things will require a mixer or microphones at all, and if you're programming them you don't even need a 'proper' soundcard except for reasonable playback.

* Drums and Bass simultaneously: Maybe your drummer and your bassist really 'lock' well, so you want to record them simultaneously. With a budget setup, you'll run into a few problems-- you can use a setup like your 'live' one, and decide where to position each in the stereo pan, and at what levels, then record them both at the same time, but you'll have both instruments mashed up together, and won't be able to change their settings relative to each other later.

Alternatively, you can record all the drum microphones in the "left" channel (or right... it's arbitrary), and then the bassist in the "right" channel. As long as your mixer doesn't have any crosstalk (bleeding from one channel into the other) you will now have 2 discrete tracks, and can modify either as you see fit. The drawback of this is that your drums will have to be all panned centre in the final mixdown-- it won't sound as organic as when you have your different pieces of kit in subtly different parts of the stereo panning field.

* Bass, Rhythm, lead, vocals, etc: OK, now you've gotten to a point where every other instrument is a 'mono' instrument-- like a guitar, a vocal track, or whatever. You can record either one at a time, or any -2- at a time, to build up the rest of the track. This is where the number of inputs isn't as much of a hassle anymore, because just like many studios, you're only adding parts in one at a time now. So, you've recorded drums separately and now you want to add a bass. In your sequencer (your recording software), you pick a new track, call it "bass", select it, plug your bassist into the mixer, and turn down or mute every other channel on the mixer except the bass. Press "record" on your sequencer, and just like a Portastudio or whatever, the bassist can record his part "over" the existing drum line.

Each other instrument's the same... you decide to add rhythm guitars, but want you and your other guitarist to record both at once... no problem, pan one guitar left, the other right, and mute the rest of the channels. Then you want to add the lead vocal. Send just one channel through either the L or the R... or record it in stereo, if you have a stereo microphone! If you record in stereo with a mono microphone (most microphones) you'll end up with one centre-panned track, which is still fine and quite usable. Later, you want to add harmonies, with 2 singers singing at once. Either record them into one track, or if you can isolate them from one another, give them each a microphone and record one in the L and one in the R!

Now, I think I may have gone overboard in the explanation, so I hope that doesn't ADD to the confusion-- but to get back to your original question:

With the budget setup, you will NOT be able to adjust each instrument seperately in the mixdown.

You CAN mix down as many tracks as you want, without ANY external gear (you don't even need the mixer or soundcard, really, if you do the mixing on the computer-- it's all "virtual" and is independent of outboard gear), provided you have recorded all those tracks seperately. A better soundcard still helps in this phase, though, and I wouldn't recommend trying to do anything too serious with just your laptop's onboard sound, for example. You can theoretically have limitless numbers of tracks in your recording, regardless of any outboard gear, but it will come down to your computer's robustness.

[Little Bit]

Yours is a far more complete post.

He did say "1 input"

I wasnt sure if he meant the mono mic input, or the stereo line input.

[GregP]

True enough, true enough.

The way I usually do it is one instrument at a time. I pan that instrument either hard left or hard right, and then in my sequencer (Tracktion), I have the input split into 2 inputs, too, instead of as one stereo input. Plug the appropriate one into my track, and record it as a mono signal.

[asm]

i agree with greg. i do the panning trick to.

if you have alot of channels (a bigger board) you can bus out from say 4 tracks to 1 then that track to your interface. or, say you have six channels, pan 3 hard right, pan 3 hard left, then run left channel in and right channel in (instead of going to PA system).

[Stalefish]

I really hate to break this to you, GregP, but I kinda knew that.. I've recorded like that before but I still prefer recording live as in just the whole band at one go.. More spontaneous, not to mention easier to get the instruments tight.. Sorry.. I realise that modern albums and such are recorded that way, but I a little 'vintage' in that aspect.. The problem I always have recording 'live' is that the levels are almost always completely wrong.. That's why I'm looking for a way for all 3 of us (3 piece band) to play at the same time and still be able to mix the levels after the recording.. Thanks a lot for the help so far, though.. Much appreciated..

[Guitarfrenzy]

Yeah the more input tracks you have the better anyway. The M-Audio Omnistudio USB can get you 4 inputs as long as you have some kind of usb port on your laptop. Now as far as hooking up more than one to a computer, I'm not sure and will have to check into that for you. You might also want to check out the MOTU line of stuff. They sell some very good stuff also, and you can get a good Firewire one from them. You really need to know what you have on your laptop first before you buy one. Unless your willing to buy a new laptop with Firewire on it.

[asm]

i think you might have probelms getting a good mix live unless you have alot of mic's (and channels).

main reason is the drums, say you want a kick, a sm57 on the snare, and a 57 on the toms and an overhead sm57 on the high hat and cymbals.

well, theres all you 4 imputs right there, and unless you went from there to a mixer and out one track its gonna cause trouble.

thats a small setup on drums too, alot of people in the studio setup a drum with 6-9 mics. (of course you can just do an overhead or a pair of them but its not going to be near as good of a dynamic range as you could have)

so....alot of inputs=alot of money needed for gear.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Yes, you'll need some SM-57's at least to get a decent sound. Shure SM-58 for vocals. But if your gonna be doing drums and want the best mixdown, then you'll want to do like asm suggested and have seperate tracks for as many parts of the drums as you can. Personally I've gotten by with recording as follows:

Track 1: Kick

Track 2: Snare (with hi/hat)

Track 3: Overhead L

Track 4: Overhead R

The reason it's better to record as much seperately is because you can adjust effects, eq settings, dynamic settings of each individual tracks to get a much better mix. Another program that I use when my drums didn't get recorded good or just didn't sound good was Drumagog. I really recommend you trying it out. For example say your kick on track 1 sounded horrible, you select the Drumagog plug-in in whichever program your using as an insert and select a good kick sound. It would totally replace the kick with the new one.

[GregP]

Right then.

Well, you could probably make do with a 4-input card, but I think if you really want to record 'live', you're setting yourself up for disappointment that way. As mentioned, drums need a bunch of mics.

SO, you could always get your drummer to program the drum parts in a drum machine plugin so that at least he/she feels involved in the process....

Your main option, really, is to spend a lot of money. Even a minimal set up of 3 mics for the drums (one snare, one kick, and one overhead) with a reasonable quality set of mics and cables is running you $350+ already, which won't leave enough scratch for a 4-input soundcard and mixer.

Beyond that, I'll hold off on any advice, because creativity breeds invention, and I'm the last guy who would want to give you the impression that it "can't" be done... with enough searching, planning, and foresight, you might have enough imagination to pull it off!

Greg.

[Stalefish]

First off, big thanks to all you guys who've responded.. In light of all that's been said, I've decided to hold off on the buying (at least until we make it big!! Yeah, right..) and go with a borrowed mixer and mics.. Did some recording with this local youth organisation so we've got contacts there with some good equipment, though nothing like what I was 'envisioning'.. Thanks again, guys!! I'll post a link to the recordings once they're actually recorded..