nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I looked and couldn't find a tutorial on clearing a body, and i was wondering what you guys think would work best on a figured and dyed maple veneer: Aerosol cans or hand-brushed polyurethane? Also, is it necessary to sand between coats. If so, what grits of sandpaper should i use, wet/dry, etc...I'm looking for something that will make the guitar have that 3d dive-into-it effect, and i was wondering the best thing to use to simulate that, and i don't have any sort of equipment. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croaticum Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 you have tutorials on this site. but however i thing lgm would be the best man to explain you how to!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 yeah....i just found the clearing tutorial in lgm's painting tut., but that doesn't really help me, as i'm trying to determine whether it would be better to use hand-brushed or aerosol clear, and he has a gun. It did however answer some of my sanding questions, so correct me if i am wrong, but i think this is a decent way to go about it(with aerosol cans: spray 2 base coats of clear spray 1 more clear coat wetsand with increasingly fine grits repeat until desired effect achieved polish Thanks for your help. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 What type of spray are you using (polyurethane or nitrocellulose)? If it's nitro then you'll need quite a few more coats. Here's a very good tutorial on how to do a spray can finish (I don't know if this is in the projectguitar tutorial list). It's for a nitrocellulose spray can finish on a figured maple top. Hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 What kind of dye did you use on the maple? If it's solvent is the same as the clear coat you plan to use, then I'd advise spraying, to avoid disturbing the dye with brush strokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I haven't actually done anything yet, im planning my summer project(or one of them, at least). I'm new to finishing, and want to do something simple. I think I am going to use minwax polycrilic stained with food coloring as a stain, and i want to put a clear coat that will really make it look depp. I will do a dark stain and sand back, and it will be hand rubbed, but I want a clear that will bring it out, and i dont have the money for polishes. Will polyurethane as a clear work as well as the lacquer? Could i sand it with 2000 grit to get it nice and polished, or is there some other way to get a good polish without compounds? I'm also considering a semi-gloss finish like the 3rd pic in the carriburst thread. What do you guys think would be the easiest way to get a fairly deep finish, without using anything too expensive? Thanks for your help. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morben Guitars Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 A clear finish is only as good as the surface it rests on... If you really want a nice finish that shows depth then you should be using a base sealer coat (sanding sealer) after finish sanding the maple. The most overlooked step here is keeping the wood clean and free of sanding dust. Use a can of compressed air and a tack cloth often. It should be absoluty free of any dust before applying the sealer coat. Next apply a dye - not a stain - a dye. Minwax if for footstools and shelves...not guitars. Pick up a color that you want in powdered form. I suggest alcohol soluble..although people have had good results with the water soluble dyes. Apply the dye on top of the sealer coat...let it dry...re seal. Sand this flat with wet sanding paper starting at 600. Once all the "hills and valleys" are gone, you can begin shooting your Nitro Lacquer. Apply 2-3 coats a day for 3 days. Lightly sanding between sets. Before the final finish, let the nitro gas out for ~4 weeks. Then start with 600 and go to 2000. You should be spending about 1 hour on each grit to get the proper finish. Resist the temptation to use a sander...do this by hand and dry the surface often to check for scratches etc. After you've reached 2000 - use something like 3M's Machine Polish to buff out the shine. Note on guitar finishing...you'll get out of it what you put into it. If you want a great finish, you need to follow the proper steps. There is more than one way to skin a cat - but if you follow these steps, you'll have a very impressive looking finish. Spend some time on ReRanch reading their tutorials...very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 thanks. I think i have decided to do a simpler finish, seeing as this is only going on a saga guitar kit. But, soon(i hope) I will start my first guitar from scratch, and i will put on a nice quilted top, and I will definitely put a lot of time into correctly finishing it. Thanks for all of your help, i now realize that finishing is not as simple as i thought it to be. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morben Guitars Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 The Saga kits come "pre-sealed" and don't have the best grain...I may suggest a solid color or a dark dye. If you want to learn, don't take the easy route...you'll need to do about 3-4 guitars before you really start to get the finishes you see in your head...Jump in with both feet! Hit this puppy with some Nitro!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 ok then, i think i'll try something in between.....i saw litch's food coloring "tutorial" and i wish to use that, as it is cost effective.....so what i am planning on doing is taking real strong chemical stripper to the body to remove the sealer (bix stripper?) and i will mix up a dark red stain, sand back, and put a fairly dark red over that. To clear, i think i'm going to use some semi-gloss polycrilic that isn't tinted, and put on a real heavy coat by hand, sanding out any imperfections. My new question is, how thick of a coat should i build up with this polycrilic, and should i just leave the top coat as is, or must i sand it and polish it to get anything that even looks decent? Whoops, i guess thats more than one question, oh well Thanks for your help. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I'm speaking from my own experience with polyurethane and laquer. Poly can be nasty when it wants to be. Your initial coats have to be pretty thick because if you sand thru to bare wood by accident its near impossible to correct by respraying without it being noticeable. Also, poly is very prone to contamination. All you have to do is rub a little too hard with a tac rag, leaving behind some of that sticky residue, and the next coat of poly will just bead off like water on a duck's back. I've had some success at applying a thick coat of poly with those little sponge applicators but only on a perfectly flat surface. If its not flat then gravity will take over and your poly will slump somewhere before it has a chance to set. But on a flat surface it will give you a mirror finish and you might even have a hard time deciding whether or not to sand/polish any further. I like laquer because its more forgiving. The downside is, as someone mentioned, you need to apply more coats to get that deep finish look. Its also very noxious smelling and needs to be applied in a well ventilated area with the proper safety equipment. Like Morben mentioned, whatever you use, if things underneath aren't perfectly smooth then you will have to deal with it in the end finishing stages. That is, alternately filling and sanding to reach that happy medium. Be sure to sand flat areas with a rigid block and curves with a sponge block. Use lighter grit sandpapers on edges and its ok to use your fingers on radiused areas so long as your fingers conform to the radius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Okay, I have weighed your opinions and have decided.......nothing. The only thing i have come up with is that i want to brush it on, not spray it. I really dont have much access to specialty stuff, so I was thinking that i would stain the way I was planning on staining, then brushing on minwax sanding sealer, then coating it with a thick layer of either polycrilic or brush-on lacquer. What are your opinions as to the easier of the two. Keep in mind that this is going over polycrilic, so I think it might be easier( as well as cheaper) to just do it with polycrilic. Your thoughts? Also i have decided to abandon the veneer, as i don't want to do anything real fancy, because the main reason i am doing this is for a cheap first time stab at LED inlays. I think it would be best to just go with the polycrilic, but maybe you lacquerheads will make me think otherwise Thanks for all the help, it is appreciated. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morben Guitars Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Why aren't you spraying agian? While I use a compressor & gun now - I have used the rattle can's and was impressed with their quality. MUCH better than trying to get a glass finish by brushing it on. Stew Mac and ReRanch both sell sanding sealer & topcoat lacquer in rattle cans. I actually have a bunch left over from my can days. So with the Saga kit, I'd use the following process.. apply dye NOT STAIN!!! these are two different things!! Sanding Sealer - sand flat Lacquer. I can't stand working with poly's on a guitar. So unforgiving. If this is your first finishing project - make it easy as possible. Besides, lacquer is the Ferrari of wood finishes for sheen & luster. And multiple thin coats are much better than a few heavy coats. before you even buy the guitar I suggest getting some scrap wood and testing everything. You'll be able to draw your own conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 well, im gonna buy the kit anyway(it's gonna be my second), but i don't like rattlecans at all, i think i'm going to do a brush-on semi-gloss or satin lacquer over a dye/stain(not sure) comprised of minwax polycrilic and lots of red food coloring and after that, sanding selaer, followed by the lacquer, brushed on in thin coats, but built up to be real thick, and until i'm happy with the shine/depth. I don't like cans because they're more expensive, i have to use more than one, and i mess up with them, creating lots of spits and runs. I'm going to start whenever possible(might not be until summer) and i'll keep you guys updated. Just one more question for now: are polycrilic(water based) and lacquer compatible? Thanks for your help. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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