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I want to post something about hand planes. I have seen so many discussions lately about alternative methods including jointers, sanding blocks, elaborate router jigs, etc. This thread is not meant to encourage anyone to stop using a jointer or planer. These tools are incredible time savers and well worth aquiring. I just want to support those who cannot afford a jointer or planer. Also there is not a better tool for cleaning up the surface of wood than a hand plane. You can use sanding blocks but if you have a well tuned plane your surface will be smoother than 800 grit with one pass.

Before I had access to power tools I was building guitars with hand planes and japanese saws. I still use a block plane to true fingerboards, neck surfaces, headstocks, etc. A block plane will work for these tasks but the blade must be like a razor and perfectly square. A smoothing plane works way better though because of its length and width. As soon as I could afford one I did. While I now have access to a jointer I still do the critical joinery on my guitars with the smoothing plane (acoustic guitar top and back plate joint, arcthop guitar carved top plate joint, electric guitar body and wing joint, etc). The surface is simply smoother wih a plane and the glue joint is light-tight (hold or clamp the unglued pieces together with a light source behind it and not be able to see any light pass through).

If you want good results with a hand plane heed this word of warning: DON'T waste your time with Stanley or Record planes. They may be cheap to purchase but you will get cheap results. Get a Veritas or a Lie-Nielsen (or something equivalent). If you do go with Stanley prepare to spend the next couple days f**king with it and have it still not be as good as you need it to be. If you get a Lie-Nielsen prepare to plane end grain and curly maple to a glass-like smoothness right out of the box.

What I recommend to anyone who wants to use a hand plane is to get something like a low angle block plane and a low angle smoothing plane. The Lie-Nielsen low angle adjustable mouth block plane is an essential tool in any toolbox. But don't take my word for it: block plane comparison Since I first purchased one I now own 3 Lie-Nielsens (the low angle bock plane, adjustable mouth low angle block plane, and the low angle smoothing plane). Check out http://www.lie-nielsen.com and http://www.leevalley.com/.

I only use my Stanley now for cleaning up glue. A task for which it is perfectly suited.

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I have a Stanley plane that works very well (when tuned).

I will say that the cheaper spokeshaves never really did the job for me. I don't know why - there's not much to them. Once I switched to a Veritas spokeshave, things were beautiful. It's not crazy expensive (about $50 US) but not cheap either.

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That's just it exactly. Every one I know that has a decent Stanley plane has to mention that it works well when it is tuned properly. Why does it need to be tuned and why the disclaimer? They are supposed to be good tools, right?

Case in point: I bought a 22" Stanley jointing plane so that I could join archtop guitar plates. After sharpening the blade (which still had grinder marks across it since they never even bothered to sharpen or hone the blade properly) I reassebled the plane. The cut was great since the blade was now sharp. After a few passes I put the pieces of wood together. There was a bow in the joint and a large gap in the middle (1/16"). I set the cut to take off the thinnest shaving. After at least a half an hour there was still a gap and my spruce was being wittled away. I finally put a straight edge across the sole of the plane and it was out 1/32" of an inch. The plane was sent out the door unable to plane a flat surface. I spent a while trying to flatten the plane until I finally realized that if I was going to build fine guitars I needed equally fine tools, period.

It's like comparing a high end custom guitar with an off the shelf guitar that still needs the pickup wires soldered before you can plug it in.

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It's like comparing a high end custom guitar with an off the shelf guitar that still needs the pickup wires soldered before you can plug it in.

Yup, but the stanley costs 1/3 to a 1/4 of the price, and the hour or so it takes to tune properly is not worth the extra the amount i feel.

My $45 stanley spokeshave works just as well as the Veritas $250 version, after i spent less than 20 minutes tuning and shapening the stanley. You only have to tune it once!

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If that level of quality is accetable with you then who am I to suggest otherwise? It's your money and time.

This is all personal opinion and preference but I do find it bizarre that so many people will accept this lack of quality and also be willing to spend a good deal of their own time making up for it all in the name of saving a buck. A sign of the times I guess. I spent nearly 8 hours tweaking the 22" Stanley I mentioned and it still wouldn't plane flat. This is unacceptable to me. At a shop rate of $20/hour (which is cheap if you pay your own taxes) that amounts to $160. Add to that the $60 intitial cost of the plane and you have $220. Throw in the $20 and you have a superior plane that works. You do get what you pay for and until you acquire a fine quality tool you will not know what I mean. If you like tweaking tools then go cheap. If you want to do the highest quality work then why skimp on the quality of your tools?

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the low pricing is forgotten." ~Leon Cautillo

Am I the only one who feels this way?

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Myka - I didn't really think of it is a disclaimer but I can see why you would see it that way. All I meant by that was - if you take a Stanley plane home from Home Depot and start cranking away - I wouldn't want anyone to expect great results. With the blade sharpened and free of nicks and gouges, and having spent some time to set the blade properly, it does a good job. I guess that same statement would be true for any plane. Consider the disclaimer withdrawn.

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Myka - I didn't really think of it is a disclaimer but I can see why you would see it that way. All I meant by that was - if you take a Stanley plane home from Home Depot and start cranking away - I wouldn't want anyone to expect great results. With the blade sharpened and free of nicks and gouges, and having spent some time to set the blade properly, it does a good job. I guess that same statement would be true for any plane. Consider the disclaimer withdrawn.

You shouldn't have to do all that. When you buy a tool it should work as it's supposed to out of the box PERIOD! you don't buy a Brand New car only to find that it needs a complete engine overhaul and a complete brake job when you get it home from the dealer, do you?

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You shouldn't have to do all that. When you buy a tool it should work as it's supposed to out of the box PERIOD! you don't buy a Brand New car only to find that it needs a complete engine overhaul and a complete brake job when you get it home from the dealer, do you?
Yeah but for 1/3 the price....

Seriously, this is a perfect metaphor. No one would accept this in a new car and still keep it so why would you assume that fixing a brand new tool is necessary? Contrary to the Home Depot mentality you do not have to tune a high quality tool before you use it.

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You shouldn't have to do all that. When you buy a tool it should work as it's supposed to out of the box PERIOD!

You shouldn't have to all of what? You should always spend some time to set it up to your needs. Always check the blade for any nicks, burrs, ... Always make sure the blade is adjusted to you needs. Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing here?

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Wait- I think I know what you were talking about now - I would not expect to have to flatten the sole of a high end plane nor would I expect to have to do much more than what I described above. Maybe that will help clear up what I said earlier. Maybe not.

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Wait- I think I know what you were talking about now - I would not expect to have to flatten the sole of a high end plane nor would I expect to have to do much more than what I described above. Maybe that will help clear up what I said earlier. Maybe not.

What I was saying is that you shouldn't have to perform "Major Modifications/Surgery" to any tool to make it do what it is supposed to do out of the box. I'll concede that you'll probably need to hone the blade, but you should NEVER have to flatten/true the sole of a hand plane out of the box. That's just negligence and lack of quality control on the Manufacturers' part

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If that level of quality is accetable with you then who am I to suggest otherwise? It's your money and time.

This is all personal opinion and preference but I do find it bizarre that so many people will accept this lack of quality and also be willing to spend a good deal of their own time making up for it all in the name of saving a buck. A sign of the times I guess. I spent nearly 8 hours tweaking the 22" Stanley I mentioned and it still wouldn't plane flat. This is unacceptable to me. At a shop rate of $20/hour (which is cheap if you pay your own taxes) that amounts to $160. Add to that the $60 intitial cost of the plane and you have $220. Throw in the $20 and you have a superior plane that works. You do get what you pay for and until you acquire a fine quality tool you will not know what I mean. If you like tweaking tools then go cheap. If you want to do the highest quality work then why skimp on the quality of your tools?

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the low pricing is forgotten." ~Leon Cautillo

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Like i said, ive never ever had an issue with any Stanley products, but from memory, there are UK and USA stanley tools. I also want to add that most of my stanley tools are all 40+ years old, which is something i didnt really think about when i first posted. Maybe the new ones are all crap, i dont know, never used one. The only new (10 years old) stanley tools i have are squares, chisels and spokeshaves, all of which are fine.

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That's the good thing about this site, we can agree to disagree, some think that Stanley makes good enough hand planes if setup properly and some don't think they are worth 2 cents and wouldn't have one. We each have different methods and sometimes certain tools won't work for others the way they will for others. I know some people who don't like the diamond crowning files, but I really like them tons better than the regular ones. I guess each to his own. But at the end of the day, will your guitar turn out good, and that's all that matters.

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Well, I think that its fine to spend time getting your tools just right. Even if the price dosnt matter, you should sit down, and get to know your tool. Tune it, get it just right.

Like you would with a guitar. You set it up, Intonate it, get the right string height, tune it. Then Playing is much better.

same thing with a plane.

But if your just making guitars for pleasure, why spend 200 bucks on an amazing block plane, when you could spend 40 on a good enough to get the job done plane.

and thank you for creating the topic, im in the market for planes, and i think i will go with a stanly (im broke) but if i had the 200 to spend i would deffinatly go with the high end ones.

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Wait- I think I know what you were talking about now - I would not expect to have to flatten the sole of a high end plane nor would I expect to have to do much more than what I described above. Maybe that will help clear up what I said earlier. Maybe not.

That's exactly what I am talking about. Honing the blade is one thing and will need to be repeated as manitenance of any plane. We should not have to flatten the sole of a any brand new plane, ever. That is negligence on the part of the manufacturer. After hoing the blade you should be able to get tissue paper thin cuts off from flamed maple right out of the box.

Like i said, ive never ever had an issue with any Stanley products, but from memory, there are UK and USA stanley tools. I also want to add that most of my stanley tools are all 40+ years old, which is something i didnt really think about when i first posted. Maybe the new ones are all crap, i dont know, never used one. The only new (10 years old) stanley tools i have are squares, chisels and spokeshaves, all of which are fine.

Yes that makes a huge difference. Stanley's reputation goes back decades and most of the planes out there (Lie-Nielsen, Record, Bridge City, etc) are based on those original designs. The difference is the quality today.

And to quote myself:

This thread is not meant to encourage anyone to stop using a jointer or planer. These tools are incredible time savers and well worth aquiring. I just want to support those who cannot afford a jointer or planer.

If you look at $500+ for a mediocre jointer compared to $240 for an excellent hand plane that will do a lot more you will see where I am coming from.

You are right though GuitarFrenzy, building good guitars is what it is all about.

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one more thing. If somone more experenced in the way of planes can help me.

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CA...3B+Smooth+Plane

is this a good plane to buy for a beginer? im on a tight budget, but i need a plane.

if you know of a better one, or could also recomend a spoke saft please let me know.

Dylan, do yourself a favor and bring a straight edge with you when you purchase a cheaper plane. Use it to check the flatness of the bottom of the plane. Don't buy one that is not flat or you can never plane anything flat with it.

Also try to go to a store that has a few brands so you can check out the quality. If at all possible test it on a scrap piece to see how they work. I know Woodcrafter's used to have a piece near the hand plane display for that purpose but you can bring one with you. Home Depot may have a problem with that but any decent woodworking store will not. At least then you can do a side by side comparison and choose for yourself after you test a few.

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Hey Myka,

I'm beginning to agree with you, i bought i tatty old stanley plane from a 2nd hand store, and got my £5 worth. ie, it was worth a fiver, no more! B)

All i want is a plane to square of the sides of a body blank in preparation for glueing together, but i'm ready to accept it maybe investment time! Especially as i don't currently have the expertise to renovate the shed of a plane, i see the charm of a plane working straight out of the box.

So, Could you have a look at this : Lie Nielson Planes At Axminster.co.uk and make a reccommendation or two please? :D

If possible your thoughts on a "cost is no problem plane" and an under £160ish plane (despite the fact that seems a heluva lot of money)

Cheers

Denny

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So, Could you have a look at this : Lie Nielson Planes At Axminster.co.uk and make a reccommendation or two please?  :D

Denny,

I have this plane: Lie-Nielson 164 Low Angle Smoothing Plane I use it for everything. It is plenty long enough for any guitar work. Also the blade is very thick so the cut is smooth. With a 2" blade it will do all of your body joins as well as thin acoustic tops, scarf joints on necks, as well as flattening fingerboards and necks before gluing. One of the most helpful ways to use it is upside down in a vise. This way you can true up small pieces like an ebony bridge part or use it for bookmatching headplate veneers, etc.

The way I plane body woods is to clamp the two board together and hold them in a vise. I flatten them both at the same time to be sure the angles are correct when you open the boards up (complementary angles match so if you are not at a perfect 90 degrees the boards will still be flat when you put them together). Then I go over each board separately with the plane set to an extremely fine cut to do the final fit. The result is a perfect, even joint that consistent with very hard or figured woods. If the wood is very figured or funky like mahogany palen at a slight angle to slice the wood.

If you are going to invest in a plane like this be sure to get a sharpening jig so you can have a perfect 90 degree edge. Also you will easily be able to get a mirror smooth surface on the blade (razor sharp). Here is one: Axminster Deluxe Honing Guide .

Hope this helps.

~David

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