rlrhett

I have used the laser printer transfer method several times to create cut lines and centerlines with CAD precision. This is all stuff I later sand away, so I don't know about permanent graphics. The paper protects the wood from scorching. You would have to be REALLY careless and allow the iron to burn through the paper to scorch the wood. In any case, the image transfers at tempretures way less than scorching. The iron does have to be hot, though. First time I tried I kept the iron at its lowest setting and just could not get a good transfer.

Mattia, I understand a traditionalist feeling like CNC is no substitute for hand working pieces. But please don't assume that an interest in CNC equals "newbies who come in, never built a guitar in their lives, or maybe got as far as assembling one, and go 'yeah, I'll just learn to program a CNC and build the bestest guitar ever!'" Some of us actually work creatively in a CAD environment. Some of us are architects, engineers, graphic designers or other dreary professionals that see the computer as a tool we can use to express ourselves creatively. It may not be as glamorous as the wood craftsman with 18th Century tools working away in some Old World workshop, but it is the best we can do. Personally, I like the precision and repeatability of CAD and thus have an interest in CNC. I like having a part and modifying it while having some comfort that the other perameters have stayed the same. And, I don't believe it makes me a "nubie" to think that I am more skilled a designer that I am at one particular hand skill of the MANY required by guitarmaking. Do I really want to learn to hand carve ebony to make a beautiful tailpiece? If I make 2 or 3 guitars a year, and only one of them an archtop, am I ever going to develop this skill to the level of the rest of the guitar, or wouldn't it be better to have a precision machine mill it from my design? What if I want a compound radius fretboard for a parlor guitar with a 24" scale length? Am I a hack for not having "hand" jigs for that? If you still can't understand the interest in CNC, then it is clearly not for you. However, I have to admit I resent the implication that only hacks or nubies with no understanding of the craft of guitar making would have any interest in it.

[quote name='jer7440' post='267313' date='May 5 2006, 10:01 AM'] Just curious what you were modeling your carve top and neck with. I used Mastercam. It turned out alright, but It took a lot of fiddling. I just recently picked up some quilt maple for my top, but I haven't even had time to glue it up. [/quote] Jer7440, I've been waiting to see the followup on your "In Progress" post! Hope you get the time soon. For what it is worth, talking to people who have gone the CNC route it seems that the expense is in the motors and controllers. There are actually MANY CNC websites that discuss building one --including ones big enough for archtops an necks. They use everything from aluminum u-channel to the wheels off of in-line skates. It seems that it is entirely possible to build high quality, light duty CNC machines for three or four hundred dollars. The problem is that each motor is also three or four hundred dollars (and you need three) and so is the controller. On top of that you need some CAM software to drive the controllers. Finally, you will probably want a CAD program that will do "lofting", and other snazy 3D effects. That I know of, none of the discount or limited versions of CAD programs include this vital tool (please, somebody prove me wrong on this!). So... It turns out that getting plans is not really the hard part. Building the device is not really that difficult (especially for someone who has built something as complex as a guitar). It is the unique hardware that puts this hoby into the price range of a used Honda Civic. What this community needs is someone who will put their CNC device up for shared use. Someone who would accept g-code and a hunk of wood and plug it in for a reasonable charge. Any one? Any one? PS, there is one person on this forum that offers use of his CNC on the "For Sale" section. However, he is very reluctant to do one-off or unique designs. I gather what he really is offering is to mill one of his established designs onto your wood. That's a great service, and I am grateful for it. But I suspect that those of us who dream of CNC want to experiment with our own designs. Otherwise we would build a duplicarver for a couple of hundred bucks!!

Have you ever built an acoustic guitar? Maybe if you build one you will see where the hours go. Ever bent sides? Carved braces? Carved a heel block? Carved a bridge or tailpiece? Kerfed linings? If you want to build an acoustic archtop and slap a $60 laminate top on it, be my guest. In any case, I don't know how to be any clearer with the answer. Yes, people have done it. It is done all the time. Usually by large Tiwaneese factories because it is cheap and produces a barely acceptable acousic tone. Check MIMF to see many threads discussing it.

Uh, MOST commercially made archtops are made this way. A trully carved archtop is a rare instrument and usually runs in the multiple thousands of dollars. Bent vaneer tops and backs is what I was referring to as "laminate" guitars in my earlier post. There are literally dozens of threads on how to laminate a top over on the MIMF forum webpage. Everything from how to make the molds to what kind of glue to use. Check it out, its a great resource. To me, going through the trouble of making a laminate top is like spending hundreds of hours to restore to factory perfection an old Honda Civic. Laminate tops are cheap to mass produce, but if you are going to spend a couple of hundred hours (not to mention $$) making just one guitar do it right and carve. Of course, be prepared to waste a lot of wood. Tops and Backs are carved from 1" wood to end with a 1/8" top! Sometimes it hurts to see a piece of spruce that would yield enough tops for 4 guitars be whittled away to just one guitar. 1" bookmatched quartersawn spruce (2" if you resaw your own) and matching figured maple is not cheap. Good luck, and be sure to post the final project here so we can all see!

I dig the string ferrules rather than a stop piece. One word about "fanning" the holes for your next one (and there will be a next one I know! Once you build one you're hooked!) is that the groove cut into most TOM bridges is not very deep. The string will constantly want to be pulling out of the slot. Not a big problem on the lower e string, but on the high e bending will tend to unseat the string. I know from sad experience. Lining the holes up behind their slots in the bridge is pretty necessary. Cutting a deeper groove could work, but then you are talking about filing brass and trying to keep it straight, smooth and without burs.

I agree with Mattia. Having tried my hand at electric/flat-top acoustics/carved archtop I can tell you that each is its own science and uses very different tools and jigs. For example, you may want a carving spoon or finger plane to build an archtop. A useful jig for a flat-top acoustic is a 24" diameter dish with a 25ft radius dome carved into the top. I think the Microplane patern "sander" is a great tool for shaping electrics. I don't know how I would use any of these to build the other types of guitars. I can suggest that if you are looking for an electric guitar with a hollow body (ES-355, for eg) you may want to look at some of the laminate body kits out there. Acme-archtops.com sell laminated fronts and backs and pre-bent sides. Most people who want a true archtop try to carve the top and back for a much better acoustic tone. But if you mostly are going to plug it in, a laminate top is a good way to go. The glue up, internal bracing and neck have more in common with an acoustic build than an electric, but you would be much closer to a guitar if you start with a kit.

I recently bought the microplane patern "sander". Frankly $14 doesn't seem like a high price to me, but understand if it is for others. My impression is that it is a very useful tool, but it has a learning curve. It is VERY aggressive compared to a Robo-sander. It bucks and jumps a lot if you don't control the pressure right. I think Microplane should have done a less aggresive "grit". On the other hand, if you apply pressure right, it hogs through wood 5X as fast as a robosander and leaves a great polished edge. Too much pressure and you "dull" it by pressing the cutting edges in. When you get it right, it cuts like a hot knife through butter. Well worth it for the price. I look forward to getting the right feel. When I do, I know I am going to love this tool.

I sugest that you look at the archived discussions at the MIMF website. There is a lot of discussion on how to make laminated tops, back and sides for archtops.

Interesting...is the rimset radiused (radius dish), or are you gluing the top on flat? Braces arched or not? If you've got a more idiot-proof way of setting the neck so that it all works out, that'd be great; how exactly are you taking these measurements? I'd appreciate it if you documented that well, with pictures and explanations. It's something I'm still not sure on, as far as the 'best' system is concerned. Right now I'm arching all the bracing spherically (25'), gluing to a domed top, and leaving the top thick under the fingerboard extension allowing me to 'level' the area once the top's together. The 25' radius arch puts the neck angle pretty close to where it needs to be. Others brace flat above the soundhole, and sand a small dropoff (less than 1/8", IIRC) from the soundhole to the head on otherwise arched/radiussed rims. The 'L' headblock extension I used on mine does pretty much the same thing your glued on bit does, I guess. Looks like this without the top or the notches in it: http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvalente/guitarpics/Body_GAB1_01.jpg With top in place (different guitar, though): http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvalente/guitarpics/body_gc1_13.jpg Shamelessly stole the idea and design from Al Carruth, so no points for originality there. Ok mattia, so what's with the x-brace on the back? Isn't that too much bracing? Do you get a good tap tone from the back braced like that? What about the final sound? Like it? What made you go that way? Just so you know, I think it looks awesome and am very intreagued. This isn't criticism, I'm really impressed by the cool design! It's just unusual and seems to go against the grain of what people usually try to do with backs (i.e. find ways for less bracing).

JIM, I sent you an e-mail, but I thought I would post the question here so that anyone else who is interested could see the answer. Can you use a 2-D .DWF contour map to rough cut a carved/arched top? I assume you can program the tool to cut following along a contour line and then step up to the next contour. Obviously the final smothing and shaping would have to be done later by hand. Can you (are you willing to) do it? Thanks.

I have finally found some space for a few big tools and am thinking of getting first a table saw (I also do non-guitar woodworking), and then a band-saw. I understand that induction motors are more powerful and quieter; but, damn, what a premium in price! What are people's real world experiences with universal motors. For the high precision tasks that guitar making requires, do the universal motor saws just not cut it? (yes, I intended that pun ) Seriously, for an amature that is only working on ocasional project on the weekend, will I be sorry that I bought a $250 universal motor saw instead of a $750 induction motor saw? For me $250 is a no-brainer, $750 I will have to agonize about for months. Also, I live in one of those soul-less, brand-spanking-new, San Diego development communities. There are no pawn shops or guarage sales where some widow is unloading a 1950 14" bandsaw for 25 cents. At least not that I know of. So new or eBay seem to be my only options (unless someone has a San Diego specific recommendation).

Rockeros, Did you build one from these pans? It would be awesome if you posted pics of your build and tell us what it cost you to build. Maybe even show some cut pieces. One limitation I see has been finding reasonably priced 3-d CAD software that you can turn into g-code. It seems like if you really want to design something with complex 3-D shapes (like the arch of an archtop or a compound radius fretboard) you need pro versions of CAD software that all cost between $800 and $1500. The few budget 3-d cad software I have seen seem to allow you to build simple shapes, like a tube from a circle, but not complex shapes.

I have used the sled jig on this site to thickness rout a 1.5" ash blank and was really surprised at how well it worked. However, before I blow a nice piece of 1/8 bookmatched mahogany I was wondering if anyone had ever used the jig to thickness rout the top, back & sides for an acoustic guitar. I have done a search (hard to do when you are limited to just one term) and only found genric references to the jig, nothing specific to thin acoustic tops and sides. Tops are usually thicknessed to a few thousands of an inch less than 1/8" and back and sides are just shy of 1/10". How does mahogany and spruce stand up to the router beating? Any actual experience out there on this? Just to put this in context, I have no pretentions of being a professional luthier. I am just an addicted amateur with a tiny work area. Unfortunately, even if my wife allowed me to spend $700 on a Performax 16/32 thickness sander I would have no place to put it. I don't trust my hand planing skills (or equipment), so I look for alternatives. Thanks, PS, if anybody has a good reference in cyberspace or in a bookstore for really clear instructions on the use and care of handplanes, I would really appreciate it. Googling "hand planes" produces a mountain of information.

Really interesting thread. I too would love to get a guitar CNC'ed probably from the PG member who is offering up his machine. The problem I have is I can't find a 3d CAD/CAM program that cost less than a PRS guitar with all the bells and wistles TurboCAD (in all the software stores and such) reserves "lofting" for their $800 "Pro" version. The basic version only allows you to extrude a 2D shape straight up. That wouldn't work for carving a top. Does anyone know of a 3D modeling program that won't break the bank and that can export to .DWG or even g-Code? I keep seeing all these terrain making features on computer games and think, "this would be GREAT!" If you are not familiar, mostly they are customizing parts of computer games where you start with perfectly flat earth represented isometrically. You click on a spot and click to "lift" it. The rest of the terrain falls smoothly away until you have your "hill" as high as you want it. Imagine creating carve top designs that easily! Imagine how creative you could get! Anywho, back to reality. Is there a 3D program people can recommend that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I doubt this is the right place to ask, but I can't do a good search to know if this has been answered. Is there a way to do a search of two words that are not a phrase. For example I wanted to see if other people had experience using a router and a sled to thickness wood for an acoustic guitar. However if I just search "thickness" or "thicknessing" I get way to many hits. Same for "rout" or "router". The phrase "thickness router" is meaningless and returns no hits. How do I search for threads where "thickness" and "router" and "sled" all show up, just not all together in a row? Thanks,

A few wraps of tape on the right bearing helps with getting just the right edge depth. Dont you have the problem of the tape falling off? Maybe I'm using the wrong kind of tape, but I had the same issue with the Stew Mac neck pocket template. It is oversized and you are supposed to use tape. The tape would just fall off the smooth steel bearing as soon as I started routing. Didn't try with other tape. I just assumed it would all be the same.

I can't say that I am terribly happy with the dremel and Stew Mac binding channel attachment. First of all, adjusting the highth of the cut is very difficult. You set the bit and tighten it down. Then you screw on the guide to see how deep it will cut. Usually it is slightly off (and on binding "slightly" REALLY matters). No good so.. You un-screw the guide and make an eyeball adjustment. Rinse, wash, repeat. Secondly, it simply seems impossible to get a consistent depth (thickness) on the channel. I make multiple passes on a flat top guitar and still I seem to get a lot of variation in the depth and a little wander in the up/down dimension of the cut. In short, if there was a reasonably priced jig for my regular router I would never use the Dremel again. Unfortunately, pattern bits with exactly calibrated difference between bearing and cutter are hard to find. I think LMI has them for their usual outrageous mark-up. Anyone know of a reasonably priced alternative?

Where can you buy coiled fretwire? I did a search here and on google and couldn't find a supplier. Stew Mac and LMI seem to only sell it in 2 foot straight lengths.

I have grain filled with black Colortone on ash, sanded back (a major pain in the a*$. Unless you want the ash to be splotched grey, you really need to go all the way back to the bare wood) then applied a deep cherry red/mahogany stain, then a dyed red transparent and finally unspeakably many clear coats. The result was an even dye with a very beautiful and noticeable grain. I get a lot of compliments. I am just a weekend warrior, and I don't presume to know half of what mittia and others know. Their websites show AMAZING guitars. But I'm pleased with the process. I suppose the moral of the story is that you can successfully do it either way. It depends more on your care and execution.

I have to second the router approach. It worked for me like a dream. Once I made the slaigh, I had no trouble making consistent 13 deg scarf joints. I had only trivial hand planning. It probably could work even without hand planning. It is amazing to me how smooth and consisten a router cut can be.

Yeah, I think the lesson to be learned from all this is that at $350 you are mostly looking at Asian made guitars. There is nothing wrong with these guitars, it is just that they have a huge range withing the same manufacturer/model. $300 Korean or Chineese guitars can be SPECTACULAR values. They can also be utterly unplayable even within the same models. You just have to play them until you find THE ONE. Then buy it! Don't think that you will be able to find one of the same model that plays just as well elsewhere. My $.02

I've reached the limit of what I can do with a cheap block plane from the local ACE hardware store. However, I am not a professional woodworker. It is hard for me to justify a $150 LN block plane AND a $300 bench plane AND a $75 spoke shave, etc. I might be able to spend $150 TOTAL, if there was no reasonable alterantive for less. I want a plane to join pieces of 6/4 ash and 1/4 maple. I also need to smooth plane the surfaces of the ash and maple and thickness plane spruce and rosewood. Finally, I would use the plane to smooth a neck for the fretboard join and to even and smooth a skarf join. OK, so this is probably impossible, but... If you were to invest in just one decent plane, what would people recommend? ECE smothing plane? Vertias low angle smoothing plane? LN adjustable angle block plane? Some Bailey/Stanley plane from e-Bay? A 4 1/2, a 5, a block plane? What? I have seen discussions on the merits of a LN vs Veritas vs ECE vs Stanley, but all of them seem to come from the point of having already decided to by a specific size/type of plane, etc. I understand that there is no deffinite answer. All I am asking is for those who have extensive experience, what would be your recommendation given my budget and use limitations? Thanks,

FYI, I had a cheap laminate body Strat and the thing sounded really terrible compared to a friend's solid wood strat. So... I made a new body. Wow what an improvement (I used Swamp Ash, which to my ears is the best. I like the livelyness of it better than Alder or Mahogany)! But, I wasn't completely satisfied. So... I made a new neck. Wow what an improvement (Rosewood and Maple neck) ! But, I wasn't completely satisfied. So... I got a set of new pickups. Wow what an improvement! But I wasn't completely satisfied. So... I did the star grounding/sheilding trick with all new wiring/pots/jack. Wow what an improvement! Moral of the story... Save yourself the trouble and just make a guitar from scratch. Usually EVERYTHING cheap on a cheap guitar conspires to make it sound CHEAP. In the end I improved my cheap guitar by replacing EVERYTHING! If you make your own neck, you will spend about $350 on all the materials, including good pickups and a good bridge, and have a guitar you couldn't buy for $1500. If you buy a Warmoth neck (the best pre-made necks I know of) your parts still only cost about $450. Either way you will have the best guitar suited just for your style. Donate the cheap guitar to your local school and take a tax deduction.

Skarf joints can be done above or below. An excellent diagram of this can be found in Make Your Own Electric Guitar by Melvyn Hiscock, © 1998, NBS Publications, Bsingstoke, UK: So, what are people's experience with using the skarf for necks? Is placing the headstock above or below the neck better? In other words, which is stronger? Easier to make? Easier to glue? Etc. What are people's experience? Thanks,