mistermikev

no expert but anytime you hear "oil" followed by "lacquer/clear" - had at least better make sure you do some tests. i know tru oil is pretty forgiving in this regard but it's not really oil.

that is a great suggestion to the tune of "why didn't I think of that". it is def the air trapped in the can that did it in... perhaps I should get some plastic containers that I can squeeze the air out of and close. afa diy... I've read quite a bit about diy and commercial shielding and seen a number of shootouts. you get what you pay for. from everything I've read the versions with actual metal in them are by far the best. stew mac is very good... but mg chem super shield consistently gets higher ratings. I don't use metal based all the time because they are silver in look... so sometimes go with mg chem total ground if it's going to be visible... but I'm convinced the silver look is something you have to suffer if you want better shielding. honestly copper is best but all my ctrl cavities tend to have irregular nooks and crannys that make that impractical so my compromise is shielding paint and copper on the cavity cover. ymmv.

well my powers of observation are somewhat lacking sometimes!

well for the record... this isn't really about trying to make or save money... on some level, perhaps subconscious... I'm trying to dissuade myself from being so "into" it by knowing what it's actually costing me! do I think I could give it up completely if I wanted to? no, probably not. At the least it will make me more learned, and that is never a bad thing. thank you for the thoughts sir!!

even before the pandemic... the cheapest I could find switchcraft was philli luthier... $22. binding... well for a lp build getting thicker binding is key... and the best I could find (w/o looking around too much) was $11+ each. you figure you'll need at least one for the body, one for the neck, and probably half of one for the headstock plus some slop. shielding paint... the only way I can save money there is buying a big can of it. I did that years ago when I was building partscasters and even keeping the can in a plastic bag it dried up by the time I got done with 4 guitars. at $50... that's about $13 ea. I now buy little bottles from mg chem and they are about $30 plus shipping... and with 3 coats you get about 1.5 guitars out of them. that's a 1 oz bottle. thank you for the thoughts... def some places I could shave a few bucks here or there.

shit I'm sorry, I somehow missed your post. yes, that's the switchcraft premium. I'm well aware of some decent less expensive options. that said... I love the feel of switchcraft and oak grigsby. both have a stiffness you just don't get anywhere else. Both def things that would be easy to save money on if your main purpose was profit or just keeping costs down. I think one of the mistakes many builders make is comparing their build to mass produced. It'd be like comparing a painting done by banksy to a lithograph. As I said to AD... you don't get a guitar built by one luthier from fender/gibson until you go custom shop... and those start at $3400 and probably average $5000. These are not customized models... these are production models made by the custom shop... and you aren't going to find anything but switchcraft, honduran mahog, 5A tops, etc on those builds. I certainly am building for the love of it. cnc actually takes way more time unless you are producing in large numbers. I probably have spent 60+ hours just on cad/cam, and another 120hours building each of the recent teles I did. Of course I wouldn't go through that if it wasn't satisfying to me... and it is most def that. I love this hobby so much it has consumed me... and I have about 50 guitars I want to build... but I've recently come to the realization that I don't think I'll be able to afford all the things I want to build without at some point, to some degree or another, considering selling some of my completed builds or doing some builds for others. If you figure an avg of 800 each minimal parts/materials cost... don't even think about my investment in tools... that's around 7 grand. Nothing wrong with building cheap... it just doesn't suit my tastes. thank you again for taking the time!!

hehe, cooking dinner. one of my thoughts getting into cnc... was that it would keep my fingers away from power tools... and ultimately be safer given that it is easier to take very small bites of wood. I'm not sure how valid that is. that said... idk about cooking dinner. It could throw a workpiece at you pretty easily, or start a fire... so I'm pretty much watching it full time. I think ultimately, w/o even factoring in the design time... I would bet it actually takes significantly longer to do a one off on cnc vs by hand. I don't have a bit changer and so the time I spend changing bits after each operation, plus the time I spend aligning things... plus factoring in that you almost have to do a prototype operation for every actual operation... if you are really lucky at best you build two guitars... but more than likely you toss 35% of your first operations. I would bet the break even point is building 3 or 4... cause by #3 you know your code works as intended and can just run it. slotting and inlay especially. those operations take forever on cnc. that is part of my motivation here... I'm curious how much more time it actually takes. I def feel like my building has slowed down drastically since I started cnc... but it's hard to tell how much of that is just learning curve. afa chisel... um... a while back I damn near cut my index finger off with a util knife so... there is still plenty of that in my life! 150hours... so you figure a grand in parts... and 150 hours of build time... if you paid yourself a meager $20/hr that's a $4000 guitar. If you look at what it costs to get a guitar made by 1 luthier from fender tho... that'd be entry level custom shop... which starts at $3400... and even then a lot of the prep work is done by the factory so... pretty much on target. thanks for you feedback - very much appreciate it!!

that's a good guess. I've read over on tdpri that the typical flat top tele is generally 50 hours and that's a really simple build. I've read at mylespaul that the typical standard is 85hrs. I wonder how much of an under estimate that is for me!

no, I actually am fairly aware I guess... our own lef guitars uses them. Probably the majority here use them as every build I see seems to have one. Its just that I think the allied rods, and the lmii for that matter, are worth the small difference (in the context of the build). I have four left from the 5 I bought when I did the dano style... probably use them at some point to. oh, if I factored the cad/cam into the equation... esp given the learning curve for me... they'd be... I generally wouldn't walk away from the machine unless I was very confident in what I was doing... ie it was simple... I have a camera on it and freq have that on my phone while I'm in my office goofing around... but you are right - those hours factor into the real 'expense' of a guitar for me. I'm just really curious how long it takes me... as for the most part I'm doing one-offs... and this is def NOT the way to do them to make money... nor really is my design... but I'd still like to know the awful truth of how long I actually spend on them.

very thankful to have your input as always. good call - set of strings... I'm guessing there are 30 other things I'm forgetting and would love to hear more if you or anyone else sees a hole - will add that one asap. well... I'm not sure my raw material costs are reflective of what it would cost me today... but at a certain point you have to just put down your costs and let the chips fall where they may. the allied truss... I think it's a very reasonable point... cost/benefit. That said... when you are talking about a 900 investment and 95+ hours of your life... I'm not sure truss rod is the place I want to save $30. the allied truss is braised instead of welded... the metal is really high quality stainless, there is 1" of block at either end, the threads just feel like precision, and the spoke nut is much smaller than the Chinese variations of this rod. afa I know the cheapest dual action I can find is bitter root for approx $13 so not 8x but perhaps you weren't trying to be literal. I guess if one was seriously considering mass production that would be a good place to cut some costs tho so - good point. tallying labor - well if I trade/sell a build I'd like to know at what point it would be "worth it" for me and for me... that would include my time. That said I'm more curious than anything else. I'd also like to know how fast/slow I am compared to others (would love to know if anyone has an idea of how long various builds took them). I guess with cnc in the mix it's going to muddy the waters... but also I'd like to know what percentage of my hours is just running the machine vs working the parts/assembly. I suspect actually tracking my hours would be a real eye opener. the tracking app is a good idea. I think I might try to setup a camera and turn it on every time I work, but the track app would be a good fallback plan. thank you again for the input!!

Right on, I guess like anything else it all depends on how you do it . Now that I think about it when I was doing that with a jig I was using a bowl bit the whole time and that probably makes a big difference too not having sharp edges

not sure I agree that you can't get a smooth surface w a router. if your jig is smooth the surface is only going to have superficial tool marks that will easily be sanded away at 220 grit. When I did the radius for my strats - by hand with a jig... the sanding prior to gluing on a top was absolutely minimal 5 mins max. sure you are going to have to do some sanding either way... but the amount of sanding you'd do doing the radius-sanding-block vs the amount of FINISH sanding you'd do after a router/jig is night and day different amounts of work. i think above, you say after the belt sander you can do it in an hour... so figure 20 mins of belt sander + 1 hour of hand sanding... if you spent that 1 hour building a jig it's going to mean 10 mins of runtime and another 5 - 10 mins of finish sanding. more importantly... a router/jig is going to be much more consistent and less prone to issues when leveling. not saying it can't be done well... but even with guides at the side keeping your radius block flat... unless you use a 21" radius block... it would be very easy to get results that mean more sanding afterwards with a leveling bar to flatten things perfectly. iow it's more idiot proof and I suppose that's why it resonates w me so well!

so lately how much i spend on guitars has been under the microscope (by me, not necc the wife - she lets me get away w far too much!)... I suppose partially due to prices/inflation/gas etc... but also because I get a few asks here or there to buy a guitar I've made. not really interested in selling, I don't build with that intent... but at some point all of us probably have to consider just tossing more money at guitar builds or perhaps selling off an old build in hopes of recouping some cash to finance future builds. Also, perhaps to prove a point... maybe only to myself. I think in general most of us would be surprised at what we actually spend building a guitar. I know I was surprised at what I spent on kevin's tele for sure. With that in mind, I wanted to track actual costs on a future project as accurately as possible. I also would like to track my hours. so I've started a spread sheet for a future lp build, not going with the cheapest of parts... but also not going overboard. just middle of the row stuff - stuff that I would actually buy. I'd be interested to know what you think of it... just honestly how it hits you. I did not factor in shipping costs... and I'm guessing some things are missing... but an honest attempt at figuring actual cost for a prospective build. Have any of you done a similar analysis? What did you find? further... how many hours would you guestimate to actually make a lp standard with single binding, typical 14 deg headstock, trapazoid inlay? I'm told the avg tele takes 50 hours... my guess is a lp would be near 90. I don't know what I spent on my baritone tele/paul... but I'd bet it's even more than that. WOODS: COST: SOURCE: body blank - mahog $35 peterman neck blank - qtr sawn mahog $35 peterman top - flamed maple $65 jlcraftwood fretboard blank - ebony $30 unknown HARDWARE: gotoh bridge std post gold $34 stew mac tailpiece gotoh gold $30.08 stew mac tuners - gotoh sd90 mg sl gold locking $59.99 amazon pickups - seymour 59s used $89.99 craigslist fretwire - evo gold med $17.99 philledelphia luthier truss rod - allied flex strong spoke $43.00 allied luthier ELECTRONICS: pots - bournes long shaft 500k (2x) $15.18 amazon push-pull - bournes long 500k (1x) $8.30 amazon rotary stew mac 4p6t $17.39 stew mac 3-way toggle switchcraft $24.59 stew mac out jack - switchcraft $4.69 stew mac wire - braided, solid-core… $4 stew mac preamp $50 me MISC: ctrl cavity pguard - all parts w toggle cover 14.95 guitarelectronics.com toggle cover n/a see above toggle ring 3.89 stew mac out jack plate allparts cream $7.99 sweetwater scratch plate 8.99 guitarelectronics.com scratch plate bracket gold 6.49 guitarelectronics.com binding - cream (x3 11.34) 34.02 rothko and frost pickup rings 9.79 amazon inlays - gold pearl 27.99 j/n pearl on ebay headstock inlay $5 strap pins 10.03 sweetwater nut - bone 9.99 amazon pickguard screws $3 guess ADDNTL MTRLS: wood/ca glue $3 sandpaper $12 carpet tape, masking tape, binding tape $12 tool wear $25 fret slot bit, whiteside 3-wing, 1/4 endmill, 1/4 ball nose shielding paint $20 mohawk seal/clear $20 dye $8 pore filler $4 TOTAL: $810

well that's a lovely piece of maple. afa bandsaw... it is certainly a do-able proposition. lots of folks do it that way... but some sanding it going to happen. if you have some sort of disk sander or belt sander that can clean it up afterwards - would make things a lot easier. another alternative... since you no doubt have a router... is to create a jig for doing it via router. i used to do angled headstocks with such a jig. use a protractor to draw the angle on two pieces of scrap, use a straight edge piece of scrap to router off the angle. then use some straight scrap to connect the two pieces. put a big chunk of plexiglass on your router and it should allow you to place it on that angled surface and move it around. just a thought.

so was talking on the axe fx forum about wiring and had mentioned one of my fav mods for a strat... is just wiring a dummy coil up to the 2nd volume as it allows for hum cancellation against the bridge or neck as you dial up the volume. Someone had asked for a drawing so I did a quick and dirty... thought I'd share it here. In fact... we should really have a schem repository but then they are so available in this day and age, perhaps not worth it. anywho... this is that. basically you grab another single coils that is similar in spec to your bridge/neck pickup... pound out the poles with a screwdriver or nail set... and wire it up as pictured below. stick it in the extra space between your pickups or in the control cavity... doesn't really matter. so... as you turn it up it cancels hum in the 1/5 positions... You can just turn it up until the hum stops... but also dials down the pickup output a hair... making it less aggressive. also dials down the brightness just a touch... like a fine tune control.

looking good brutha.

Hello curtisa, always good to have your input. yes, I am aware of the fact that emg uses a difference amp to subtract the noise from the signal... and as such doesn't require a ground. In fact most actives use some variation of this idea. in this case I was planning on using a cool pickup that was made for me by my friend over at oat soda pickups. it's two p bass passives - one based on p bass and one based on a split jazz. so in short they are passive, and could be quite bright (have not heard them yet). the orig carl t used an emg guitar pickup... and my early drafts of this bass were using that. the downside there is that there would be no splitting/combining of differing pickups ie less variety. another downside is I'd have to re-think the preamp I was going to use... i do have a haz lab pre pcb cut... and it does have an option to optimize for actives vs passives... but has more controls than I intended(bass/mid/treb + mid freq). the upsides being that the piezo doesn't require grounded strings, so using them would indeed mean no string ground required... and it would simplify the controls a lot... hmm... I'm gonna think on that, good call on your part. I have a p/j set and a 707... would have to see how I would integrate them into my existing route/cover-design.

well I thought of doing this but A ) the ferrules have black paint... which would have to scratch off where they make electrical conn and it might be problematic to actually solder to it, B ) it would seem a bit cumbersome as if it gets disconnected after the ferrules are in... would be a pain to take out. Also... running wire from each ferrule to the other... would be hard to hide this and not have issues with the ferrules sitting flat. I had thought of running a ground wire to just one ferrule... then using a steel or brass nut to transfer ground to strings E-G... but again then with the nylon tape between the actual string and the nut I don't think there'd be a great electrical connection there and also would not be black. another idea I had was to just get some 1/16" flat brass and drill holes for the ferrules to mount in it, this would ground them together, then put a finish plate over the top of it. with the radius there... would just create a route for the new ferrule block and given the string slots are pretty long on top... should be able to make it work. again, would make a wood cover to top it and use magnets to secure. would hide the whole thing. option z is I machine my own brass block and put make the holes follow the arc. I guess it's really only drilling 6 holes... in theory my cnc can do brass... but then have to buy some bits for metal, have to get a coolant pump... not sure I want to go through all that. I guess I'll just keep thinking it over in my head until it comes time where it's the last thing I have to do and maybe then I'll know which way to go! appreciate the input biz - thanks,

thank you. well I'd kind of have some ideas how I'm going to do the bridge. I bought these locking studs... that are for les paul style tailpiece and have tops that screw on... was thinking I could do an acoustic saddle... over a piezo ribbon, and create set screws in front/back of the studs to allow for fwd/rev action on the bridge. so that rules out a ground connection via the bridge itself... but I was thinking I could buy one of these: https://graingerguitarparts.com/products/grainger-bass-string-ferrule-block-5-string-19mm-spacing and bury it in the backside and do some sort of wood overlay. then just run a ground wire too it. the ironic thing is I use nylon tapewound strings which make a ground connection thru fingers rather weak... but you never know when you want to toss some round wounds on so best to have it. having it at the ferrules at least makes connection to the string balls and not via the strings themselves so I think that will work best for my application. i do need to add working with brass to my skill set... but this bass isn't a great candidate since I don't want gold/brass. finishing it would be problematic at best. anywho, thank you gents for getting my brain flowing!

well thank you sir... I forgot too in the sense that I don't know where I was at. kevin came with the request for a tele and this just got pushed aside... and realizing now how much there is to do. turns out I made a mistake in my design in placing the stud holes too wide apart... so no worries... make lemonaid... was thinking I'll do a wood bridge w piezo. so.. the electronics are going to be uber complicted. going to have a sep preamp for piezo, sep preamp for mags, the pickup is actually two p-style pickups together... so there will be the typical mike v "lotsaoptions" wiring... it's probably going to be too complicated. have to solve some issues too like how to ground the strings if not via the bridge... think I'll just buy a brass 5 string insert... or perhaps try my hand at milling brass? or perhaps run a ground wire to one string ferrule then use a brass nut? i dunno. decided to cut my own fretboard out of pupleheart... but my machine is only 24" so will have to attempt to tile it... lots to learn there. My design for neck needs a lot of work yet... and this would be a first doing an angled headstock via cnc. bit overwhelming... but just have to put one foot in front of the other and repeat!

so actively back working on this build decided to rebuild my tablesaw jig. got it all built... and was so focused on getting the fence perpendicular to the base (it IS perp)... that I missed the fact that the fence is not quite tight to the rabbet in the middle... so both ends pull back about 1/32... which is the exact amount I won't let slide (hehe). fortunately I had the foresight to NOT glue down my handles... so those will come off easy. Room to improve anyway... my rabbet was a little too deep so I'll fix that in the design.

right on. 1deg ain't much... but I bet it'll feel kinda nice. yes, tele neck is typically 1/8" above body level + fretboard... so it sticks up 3/8" on a normal build. that said... no rules. my last it is about 1/8" higher than that... it's like walking a tightrope! kind of nice tho in it's own way. dave/action... I am exactly the sm way. i like them laying on the frets, the lower the better. that said every once in a while i pickup a guitar that higher or just the action has changed due to temp/humid... kind of nice to play it a bit higher sometimes. anywho... I'll shut up now.

first off the tops... ooh la la. very nice. should be an outstanding looking guitar. interesting idea to put an angle on a flat top bridge. I guess if you are maintaining a slope for the neck pickup that might be required? Either way I'm sure it will add comfort. 25.5 scale... the devil's scale lol. surprising how much dif a half inch can make in terms of feel. man... you crank out some guitars. I admire that - your work ethic is impressive. I think if I tried to go faster I'd just make that many more mistakes - it's a skill unto itself. take a bow.

right on. nice work on the fretboard!! yes, george benson, pat metheney, and about a hundred other jazz guitar players said a collective "are you daft"? all worked out tho! look fwd to your next steps.

oh snap... it's a bass. ok! i like what is going on with the fretboard if I'm seeing that right... is that 3 pieces joined together? bass... now you can officially tell folks "you slappa da bass mon". I learned to play bass somewhere around my jr year high school. Our band instructor... "you can't play guitar in jazz band"... mr bader was his actual name. jackwagon... but thankfully that got my moms to buy me a yamaha motion b (32" scale) and so that's how I learned the bass. guitar players are a dime a dozen... but bass players... all sorts of bands will hump your leg and try to get you to join lol! kind of nice for a change!! anywho, looking good brother!