mistermikev

1 hour ago, MiKro said:

What end mills are you using for the fret slots?

What Feed, speed and DOC?

Not sure why you started on a good fret board?. Always test  new processes on scrap first.

Mike

well.... this was my "i don't care if I ruin it" piece... as it is the least attractive of all 4 I bookmatched.  Still mounted on the machine and machine is at the zero... just not touching it till I get new bits... then i will alter my toolpath based on the new bit size... and re-cut everything - she should be fine as I cut these slots a little thin with the plan to revisit them with the fret saw..  I will be using one of the other one's for either build as the wood is a better match, but am hoping this one makes it through fine for some future build.    

with this bit.... the speed was set to 3 in/min.  the depth was set to .03.  router was running at 18k.  if I bumped the speed up to 5in/min... break a bit.  These were just test bits... uxcell (not exactly synonymous with quality), so didn't have high expectations (they were cheap).  I've ordered a few kyocera from drillman and one from precise bits as well... should be here thursday.  I'm guessing I will up my speed to 10 in/min, double my depth... and start there.  Could probably raise up the spin to 24k... i dunno.

27 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Looking good Mike, and some really nice recon.

SR

thank you sir.  yes, that recon has surpassed all expectations.  love it.  going to be hard to match that color in stain... will have to grab my bootstraps!!

love the idea of native texas wood.  have been kicking around an idea of doing that myself with native az wood.  

looking fwd to build pics.

1 hour ago, Invader Zim said:

Looks like Mesquite.

that is a def possibility.  didn't realize mesquite has that short grain but it does as evident in the pic below.  mesquite around here... is everywhere.  have def seen cheaper sources than this for that.

"is an African wood that is considered to be the closest, aesthetically, to Genuine Mahogany "

"Aesthetically, the wood is similar, also, to its African first cousin, Sapele "

dead ringer?

saw this on my facebook feed... 

"$100 each Live edge Indian Rosewood slabs. First and last pictures are a finished bench made from the same tree(not for sale) 80"x20"x2.5"--sizes vary "

def a lot different than the rosewood we're used to seeing... in fact I don't think this is indian rosewood at all.  Indian rosewood reportedly does grow in az but this looks like sipo to me.  it's a (apparently) rare form of mahogany.  also grows here in az.

some of those edges in the 2nd pick look like rot to me... what do you think?  haggle him down?  throw $100 cash at him as fast as you can?

some shots of my birdseye for the neck blanks.  not blow your mind but, but not bad looking at all.  my experience with birdseye so far has been it is rock solid stable.  the boards these came from, have been sitting for a while now and are still perfectly flat.  planed off some to see if I'll have any movement and will check again in a few days.

second one isn't nearly as figured... but perfect straight grain and some flame.  I think I'll try and get some more of the straight grain in the profile of the one above... but it's hard to not want to get that beautiful birdseye in there.

well now... an hour of work on the dremel+diamond wheel and we're almost there.  Just have to wait for the diamond jeweler's saw blade to get her the rest of the way.  stuff is really beautiful.  picture hardly does it justice.  def want to wear the respirator with this stuff... just a plume of smoke coming off it while I was grinding.  very fine dust.  

not sure what bit I might use to plane it down... probably going to need something specialty.  Stuff would likely make short work of any regular bit.  

made a test fretboard... had to iron out some bugs.  9.5 to 16 compound radius toolpath kept getting too close to the nylon bolts and sending them flying... so had to resupply on those today.  

unfortunately the fret slot bits I have are not great... took about 3 hours to mill those 5 slots so just stopped her!  slots follow the radius beautifully so that worked out well (thanks for the tip @MiKro!!). 

could not get the speed over 3in/min without breaking at a depth of .03.  as you can see... the cutting edge is way too long for this diameter.  Got some quality bits on the way so... will take another crack at this by next weekend.  anyone know the short version of how to restart mach3 at a specific line?

bookmatched fretboard is hard to see here... but looking pretty respectable.  joint is invisible even after radius so thrilled with that.

9 minutes ago, ScottR said:

It happens. Wasn't there a garden gnome that  famously went missing and ended up sending pictures and post cards from around the country?

SR

hehe, I remember that storry well.  must be nice to travel like that!!

Just now, ScottR said:

As it happens, there were a couple of blood stains on her when I started up yesterday morning. I could find any place where I was leaking though.

I wonder what she was doing Saturday night?

SR

nothing to worry about... she was likely just mixing up some sort of potion that required a small amount of your blood.  (love the idea of her running around at night performing mischief!!)

there's a guy named bartlett who does plans for 59 bursts... he does plans that are actual copies of 59 bursts - note for note, and then plans that are an 'average' of several 59 bursts.  He made these plans with access to multiple real 59 bursts.  I tell you this to illustrate that... there is enough variance there that if you compared one reproduction that was made from guitar x... and compared it to actual 59 burst y... you'd probably think "this thing is inaccurate as all get out".  folks debate the accuracy of gibsons historic guitars with great scrutiny on some of the les paul sites... but I think it's a bit unfair to gibson.  I've looked at enough pictures of real vintage sgs, and specifically the shape of the horns, to think that "anything goes" afa making an exact copy!!  add to that... that you would be making a copy of a guitar based on a guitar that already has finish on it, and has been finish sanded.  to me... worrying about the placement of the wire channel and how exact it is is futile!!  using honduran mahog and brazillian rosewood is admirable... but at the end of the day it's much more important that the guitar is built well, and plays well regardless of how accurate it is!

in answer to your orig question... take a straight on picture of your guitar... open it in photoshop or similar... make a known scale fretboard using fret2dfind, scale the picture up to match the fretboard, then take the circle tool in photoshop and expand/contract the circle until it matches.  that would tell you the exact radius of that guitar.  if you really want to be accurate, print it out at that point and compare it to the guitar and adjust accordingly.  sorry for the book.

2 minutes ago, Bjorn.LaSanche said:

Thanks Curtis, I am feeling fairly similar to what you mentioned regarding feedback with the guy.  The discrepancies I’m getting on the plans alone were my main reason for wanting to touch base with him. 
 

The plan set I purchased is a set of three pages showing various profiles of the same guitar depending what you are wanting to focus on.  Me thing I do like about them is that the headstock looks and measured on paper sized different depending on which way you’re looking at it so at least that aspect follows ones perspective on how a headstock measures out.  It looks shorter if looking at it head on, but once you flip the instrument 90 degrees to check its profile, the headstock length sorts itself out.  (These aren’t the discrepancies I was concerned about though.  

Yeah I’m reading one now on the Telecaster site where there is actually a photo of a V with lopsided shoulders.  
 

you guys do know that the original model and the modern variant are actually very distinct from each other. Enough difference that altogether could be compared to a Gibson and a Jackson V.  As I wrote earlier and it got disappeared, the 58 and Epiphone model reminds me of a guy in drag trying to look like a sexy woman of the late 1950s. Thing J Edgar Hoover. The 67 and modern version reminds my of just on the scene Debbie Harry back in 76. 
 

and my dumbass is using my guitar as main model a 67 body and headstock with 58 contools. Im such a glutton for punishment. 

what I didn't know is that the guitar you referred to as having was not an actual 67.  that explains a lot.  further, there you go - the people who have all the access in the world to the shape of multiple real 67s, plus archives of blueprints used to make actual 67s.... well they came up with your actual reissue.  It may not be accurate to other 67s but my guess is there is an actual 67 somewhere that they picked to clone, that it adheres to quite well.

having recently studied a number of threads on the 59 burst... would agree with @curtisa that the variation in instruments makes it such that comparing an exact trace of one instrument to another from the same year would yield surprising variation.  even if you cut those two instruments on cnc... they would get sanded by hand... and one guy sands this way and another that way.  back then the variances would be wildly greater.  even patterns get worn down to a nub and introduce more variance.  

I would say... you are setup to make the most exacting copy of your guitar by having it there.  trace it and make templates.  My experience with plans is that they are merely a guide.  Even the best I've seen are going to require some 'off roading'.  

10 hours ago, curtisa said:

Kyocera 0.6mm 2-flute endmills from your old mate, Drillman/Carbide Plus on eBay.

400mm/min feed rate with 200mm/min plunge, spindle at 24k RPM, 0.3mm max depth of cut to a final depth of 2.5mm. Takes about 45-50min to do a whole board. Haven't broken one yet. Could probably go harder but I'm not having a race.

well sir, that's 5 times faster than I'm going right now!!  and 5 times deeper so... would be a huge improvement.  I think the issue with the uxcell ones is that they have such a long cutting edge... literally like 1/4".  and it tapers down to that over 1/4".  they were dirt cheap so I figured I'd use them to learn... and not snap a $25 bit from precise bits.  Once again the kyocera looks to be the best design (based on the pictures).  quick taper to that thickness and a very short cutting length.  

anywho, learned a lot milling my fretboard this weekend.... ruined a small fortune in nylon bolts/nuts as my toolpath kept getting just close enough to spin off the nut and send it flying!    Eventually got her dialed in (except for fret slots) so should be good to go on the 'good' material.  

thank you again for the guidance!!

i imagine thinning it down would be fairly doable on cnc... but I guess we'll find out.  will have to snag a bit made for stone.  I know they just use routers to make quarts countertops so... worst case scenario is it takes time.  I ordered some diamond wheels for my dremel... and some diamond blades for my jewelers saw.  will keep reaching out to a stone enthusiast group as a backup, good call.  

thank you again for the reply/input!!

fwiw... those uxcell bits suck.  started slotting and we got 5 frets in after about 3 hours.  so turned up the feed from 3 in/min to 5 and snap.  shut it down and put it on hold.  ordered some kyocera off evilbay and a precise bits... to be continued approx thursday!!

in the meantime... if you tell your speeds/feeds/bit - what works for you - I'd surely appreciate.

well the guitar looks great in the pics above.  really liking that fretboard... adding to my list.  afa ahh f#!@ moments... had lots of them this weekend.  just keep rolling towards a solution!!

10 minutes ago, ScottR said:

That would be an achievement. This stuff could be weaponized. And did I mention that the hair Was. Going. To. Take. For. Ever?

That's the reason for the delays in posts. I've got to get enough done to be able to see a difference or the pictures look like repeats.

SR

so realistic... just like a woman to cut you and laugh while you're bleeding!!  looks great tho!

drawer slides - best if you can snag one's that have the 'auto close' springs.  they pull the slides closed with a little bit of pressure and that acts to keep the router from wanting to 'stay' up... but isn't required...

little piece around the bit there is called an 'escutchion' and is from the plumbing section.  it is 'ok' as because of it's size it ends up 'averaging' out your curves... you could build a piece by shaping an old cutting board.

springs in between the two pieces act to pull up on the router to help it navigate your carved top.  I just used screws to hold the other sides but eyelets for this side so I could easily remove them and take the box apart if I wanted.

so basically two 4 sided boxes.  

glued another piece of plexi in to stengthen the plexi I used.

Just now, Bizman62 said:

Our Master told that he built such a router jig out of a desk lamp, the rotary clamp type with swivels and springs.

I've seen lots of them build just out of mdf.  I build mine out of poplar as I recall... with a plexi base so I could see through.  surprisingly easy to build.  just need a box to ride the router in, and a box to mount it to.  

so... just bought some crap uxcell .0236 bits to 'learn the ropes' on fret slotting.  started off with feed of 35/in-per-min and .012 pass depth... then as I broke bits each time I halved those amounts.  now running at 3 in-per-min and .002 pass depth.  very slow going but more importantly we're burning wood.  so... what bit do you use and how fast do you go?  I'm assuming the better bits you can go faster than this?

6 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I've been thinking about that. It would require the whole kit including a smaller router. Mine isn't too big but it's for two hands.

The first thing I should do is to get a smaller bearing for my router bit, the first channel was routed with a lent one.

lots of folks built them with bigger routers but yeah... smaller router would be best.  I don't think you need a kit or anything... pretty easy to build.  really just two drawer slides, some decent tension springs to pull up on the router, then build the actual platform out of whatever you have on hand.  there are lots of pics out there but happy to take picks of any part of mine you want to see.  

afa bearings... lots of folks build them with a pin (i didn't).  

24 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

To clarify the plan of laminating the sides would be to resize the body and then laminate the sides to the same thickness as the binding. The birch would also be so much harder that routing the binding channel would be much easier as the bearing wouldn't dig a groove into the side.

well, if you were going to go through all that... why not simply build a binding channel jig.  I did an used it to bind ever radius top guitar I've done... def gave me perpendicular walls and a relatively flat surface.  

honestly I see bending laminate that is as thick as binding to be a crap ton of work at the least.  if you build a carve top binding jig you could just go in a little deeper and/or a little wider and use thicker binding or perhaps layers of binding.  just a thought.

could always just go along the edge with a flat file and try to even it out.  I love the idea of lam on the sides... probably would look great... but if it was 'over' the binding it might not adhere well... so yer back to needing to flatten that binding edge anyway.  I would think that as long as you sand your binding and get a good edge on it, then bind things, then take some binding and dissolve it in acetone and touch up any bad areas... should be pretty well hidden.

looks lovely!  very clean look.  nice work!!