tru oil any thoughts pro's cons?

[sbskates]

I always us e lacquer. tru oil is getting my attention. If you dye wood with trans tint and tru oil it is the finish permanent like lacquer? Is it pretty foolproof to apply? I have a guitar I need to finish before Christmas , I am leaning to tru oil. If something goes wrong do you sand it off ? Just dont wanna get into a mess.

Edited November 27, 2014 by sbskates

[killemall8]

I personally wouldnt use tru oil over a colored finish. It requires a lot of coats and lightly sanding between coats and its VERY easy to get a sand through in the coats and color.

[guitar2005]

Tru oil is not hard like lacquer and personally, I'd only use it directly over wood.

[sbskates]

thanks for the input!

[Renkenstein]

I'm in the test phase of dying a black burst to natural and doing an oil finish over that. I'll pop in with some results pics if it turns out.

[SwedishLuthier]

I have applied try-oil over dyed wood several times. There is no more problems than applying a sprayed or other type of wiped on finish. As with all finished you need to learn to work with the stuff and there will for sure be some misstakes (heck, I have sprayed water based lacquer for 20 years and sanded through a trans-tint layer the other day...).

To be successful you should really make sure that each layer of oil is as flawless as possible to eliminate the need for sanding (OK, that goes with all types of finishes) and make sure you have plenty of layers on before sanding. Also make sure you don not try to sand all un-eveness in one session. I build up al least 10 layers using a smal patch of cotton (old bedsheets are great) before sanding. When I start sanding I sand ever so lightly using 1200 grit or higher, only taking of the "highs" in the finish. Then I apply more oil, sand, oil, sand until I have a completely smooth surface. Then you can either continue to buff as you would with a traditional finish (I haven't tried that) but that will take away some of the finish and the risk is that you eventually will cut through the layers. What I do is that I apply a few more coats of oil, this time applied with a folded coffee filter, more or less polishing the surface with oil, rather than applying a layer. this will fill the scratches from the sanding process and create a semi gloss surface. There will be a few small specks of dust in the finish but those can often be rubbed away with a soft cloth. This all produces a nice "woody" surface, not a glossy lacquered feeling, but something very organic, and for me, that is the purpose of using oil finishes.

[guitar2005]

10 coats of tru-oil seems like a huge waste of time. If you want a thin "organic" finish as you say (Whatever that means), you can apply 4-5 coats of lacquer.

[SwedishLuthier]

Has to disagree, the 10 applications of true-oil is way thinner than 5 coats of lacquer. The way I apply the oil at least. And ten layers was if doing a Tru-oil-over-stained-wood finish to avoid sanding though the oil. The oil has to go on thin as it will not cure hard enough if applied thick. You have to remember that it takes 2-4 applications before the oils stops soaking into the wood and start to build a film (of cause depending of what type of wood we are talking about). The application of oil might take a bit longer, yes, but you make up for that as you don't have to sand and buff and polish the finish. And I never said that it was a fast finish...

[guitar2005]

Has to disagree, the 10 applications of true-oil is way thinner than 5 coats of lacquer.

This is weird... because I never stated that 10 applications of Tru-oil is thinner than 4-5 of lacquer. Funny how people read posts on this forum lately.

You then go on to say that tru-oil will soak into the wood, but lacquer does that too, unless the wood is sealed 1st (but I didn't mention anything about sealing the wood).

[SwedishLuthier]

My friend. You first state this

Has to disagree, the 10 applications of true-oil is way thinner than 5 coats of lacquer.

This is weird... because I never stated that 10 applications of Tru-oil is thinner than 4-5 of lacquer.

When you, in an earlier post said this:

10 coats of tru-oil seems like a huge waste of time. If you want a thin "organic" finish as you say (Whatever that means), you can apply 4-5 coats of lacquer.

OK, you stated thin, not thinner, but if that wasn't the quintessence of your statement, please expand

Next you continue with this:

You then go on to say that tru-oil will soak into the wood, but lacquer does that too, unless the wood is sealed 1st (but I didn't mention anything about sealing the wood).

I never said that lacquer doesn't soak into wood. I said

You have to remember that it takes 2-4 applications before the oils stops soaking into the wood and start to build a film (of cause depending of what type of wood we are talking about).

So please have a look at your own style of posting before saying thing like this

Funny how people read posts on this forum lately.

Stating things like that have a tendency to bounce right back at the originator. Lest agree on refraining from that...

To the actual case:

To my personal experience (from 25 years of using different types of lacquer and maybe 10 years of using try-oil) true-oil will soak into wood much deeper than lacquer. It also takes a few more applications before you have "saturated" the wood with true-oil compared to when using lacquer. When I shoot lacquer I always have a film build up after the second application, but often already after the first. With Tru-oil, to my experience, you need as stated 2-4 applications. Remember that I stated that I apply the oil in very thin layers, thus requiring more layers before the formation of a film. However your milage may vary

And also as already stated: 10 applications (actually a few more when adding the sand level/reoil-process) of Tru-oil is for oil-over-stained-wood to ensure no sand throughs. For true oil over natural wood you can get away with as few as 3-4 applications but generally seldom more than 5-8 applications, once again depending on the type of wood you are working with

Everything I state is based on how I make things and are not in any way "laws of physics". I just doesn't agree with you statement that using a few more coats of true-oil is is a waste of time compared to shooting a few less coats of lacquer. You have to look at the total process. When shooting lacquer you need to ad time for spray gun assembling before shooting and dissembling/cleaning after the application. Repeat that up to 5 times depending on your total process (OK kan be as little as once of twice) and you have quite a lot of time spent on spray gun maintenance alone. Then you need to add time for thinking the finish, adjusting the spray gun etc etc. You also need to spend time to buff and polish the finish after maybe 5 weeks of drying. Compare that to using oil; you grab the bottle Drying time for the oil, when applied thin enough is 45-60 minutes. That is a time saving process.

[guitar2005]

My friend. You first state this

Has to disagree, the 10 applications of true-oil is way thinner than 5 coats of lacquer.

This is weird... because I never stated that 10 applications of Tru-oil is thinner than 4-5 of lacquer.

When you, in an earlier post said this:

10 coats of tru-oil seems like a huge waste of time. If you want a thin "organic" finish as you say (Whatever that means), you can apply 4-5 coats of lacquer.

OK, you stated thin, not thinner, but if that wasn't the quintessence of your statement, please expand

Next you continue with this:

You then go on to say that tru-oil will soak into the wood, but lacquer does that too, unless the wood is sealed 1st (but I didn't mention anything about sealing the wood).

I never said that lacquer doesn't soak into wood. I said

You have to remember that it takes 2-4 applications before the oils stops soaking into the wood and start to build a film (of cause depending of what type of wood we are talking about).

So please have a look at your own style of posting before saying thing like this

Funny how people read posts on this forum lately.

Stating things like that have a tendency to bounce right back at the originator. Lest agree on refraining from that...

To the actual case:

To my personal experience (from 25 years of using different types of lacquer and maybe 10 years of using try-oil) true-oil will soak into wood much deeper than lacquer. It also takes a few more applications before you have "saturated" the wood with true-oil compared to when using lacquer. When I shoot lacquer I always have a film build up after the second application, but often already after the first. With Tru-oil, to my experience, you need as stated 2-4 applications. Remember that I stated that I apply the oil in very thin layers, thus requiring more layers before the formation of a film. However your milage may vary

And also as already stated: 10 applications (actually a few more when adding the sand level/reoil-process) of Tru-oil is for oil-over-stained-wood to ensure no sand throughs. For true oil over natural wood you can get away with as few as 3-4 applications but generally seldom more than 5-8 applications, once again depending on the type of wood you are working with

Everything I state is based on how I make things and are not in any way "laws of physics". I just doesn't agree with you statement that using a few more coats of true-oil is is a waste of time compared to shooting a few less coats of lacquer. You have to look at the total process. When shooting lacquer you need to ad time for spray gun assembling before shooting and dissembling/cleaning after the application. Repeat that up to 5 times depending on your total process (OK kan be as little as once of twice) and you have quite a lot of time spent on spray gun maintenance alone. Then you need to add time for thinking the finish, adjusting the spray gun etc etc. You also need to spend time to buff and polish the finish after maybe 5 weeks of drying. Compare that to using oil; you grab the bottle Drying time for the oil, when applied thin enough is 45-60 minutes. That is a time saving process.

Don't try to read something into what I wrote. I try to write what I think with no hidden messages

Regarding the lacquer soaking into the wood, albeit differently than tru-oil, that was a simple statement that only adds to what you stated and in no way contradicts your post.

The general idea behind my original post is that you can achieve a nice, thin finish with traditional lacquer with much less work and time. "Waste of time" is relative and is only from my point of view. I never said anything about "thinner" finishes.

4 coats of lacquer can be done in 5 min each, 1 hour apart. Total spraying time = 20mins. I leave the lacquer in the gun between coats. Cleanup is another 5 mins. Say 30mins total time investment if you count some amount of setup (setup the guitar for spraying, put everything back in place once done etc.).

Having used tru-oil and still do for certain things, in my experience, doing a body with it would be more time consuming for me.

[SwedishLuthier]

Don't try to read something into what I wrote. I try to write what I think with no hidden messages

I have only responded to what you wrote, nothing less, nothin more.