medic82 Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 So, I'm planning my first build - researching tutorials and posts, both here and on other forum, watching tons of YouTube videos (many taken with a grain of salt), taking measurements from guitars I already own, drawing up 2D CAD plans, and (attempting) at creating 3D models on SketchUp. I am currently planning to use a FR trem with an R3 nut, as well as putting a 12"-16" compound radius the fretboard. Looking at Floyd Rose's Nut Chart, that in addition to their 1.6875" locking ut, they also have a 1.75" nut (which I guess Phil Demmel of Machine Head uses). In your opinion, how much of a difference would this really make? After utilizing some highly technical math (1 12/16" - 1 11/16" = 1/16") and performing complex scientific experiments (I used even more sophisticated mathmattery to determine the difference of the string-to-string spacing, adjusted my digital calipers to said measurement, and held the calipers up to the light...because a couldn't really see the space without doing so), I have come to the opinion that the differences between the two nuts are essentially negligible, but I know that tiny changes can greatly impact the FEEL of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Probably largely a question of personal preference. I prefer wider necks, so if it were me I'd be aiming for the R5 nut (1 3/4" wide). Bear in mind that the thickness and profile of the neck at the nut will also impact the feel, possibly moreso than an extra 2mm of width and an extra 0.3mm string-to-string spacing. If sourcing a Floyd Rose kit with the included R5 nut is proving difficult, or you have to shell out for an R3 kit plus an extra R5 nut, that may force your hand into going with the marginally narrower nut. Don't forget also that the difference at the nut-end of the neck between the R3 and R5 are practically non-existent the further up the neck you play, as the bridges do not come with the variety of string spacing that the nuts do. If you have the opportunity try some other guitars and decide if you prefer one with a 1 3/4" wide nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic82 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Thanks for the input! I will definitely consider the R5 now. While I don't have stubby sausage fingers, (alas) neither do I have Paul Gilbert's alien fingers... I plan on designing the neck based somewhat on Ibanez's Wizard II neck, so thin. The first time I played an Ibanez was about a decade ago, and I was amazed at how comfortable and easy it was to play. With the thin neck profile and wider string spacing, it felt great. Prior to that, I'd always been snobbish toward Ibanez. At the time, I owned a Gibson Les Paul (I suppo I was compensating my lack of skill with high end, expensive gear.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 +1 on all of that. You mentioned the Wizard II neck, so do bear in mind that the slender neck profile will require a lower-profile truss rod, and the neck will possibly be a candidate for laminating to prevent it becoming a rubber wonder. My 2002 S1540FM's Prestige Wizard neck (Wizard II?) really needs that Bubinga central lam. I doubt Maple on its own would manage to keep the stability and maintenance-free shape otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic82 Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 +1 Thanks to you as well, Prostheta! I've seen your posts several times on here and it's nice to get all the advise I can from the veterans on here. As for "Wizard II," I may have misremembered Ibanez's designation; I saw a dimension chart for different Ibanez necks a while back... As for the neck: I have taken into account the narrowness of the neck, and (I'm still in the design/spit-balling/research/agonize-about-every-detail phase) had already intended to use a laminated neck-thru design. I have a nice long piece of 6/4 (roughly 37mm or so off the top of my head, if you live somewhere in the world that enjoys common-sense based units of measurement) hard maple, as well as a 4/4 hard maple board that I could cut a clear section out of, in case I needed a little more width. My idea was either this arrangement: \\\\//// or this \\\\|||//// ...if that makes sense. On the other hand, I have noticed that Ibanez uses a 5-ply maple and walnut neck and I know that,to a degree, laminating woods of varying strength, density, and stiffness can further reduce twisting. I do have straight, clear piece of walnut I could throw in the mix. It isn't as long, so I'd probably have to do a little creative laminating to manage a continuous strip of walnut through the neck/body length and the scarf joint/headstock. That said I also intended to help stabilize the neck with a low profile dual-action truss rod (AllParts is 0.25"/6.35mm wide x 0.375"/9.5mm deep) and either carbon fiber stiffening rods or the KTS Titanium rods (same that Ibanez use) on each side of the truss rod. In your opinion, will this be sufficient to combat the rubber wonder? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic82 Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 ...follow up regarding the nut: Noticed the R5 has a 10" radius at the nut. While I originally wanted a 10" - 16" (or even 10" - 18.5") fretboard radius, I settled on a 12" - 16" compound radius, because that's what I could find available (Allen Guitars, I think). Does anyone know of any suppliers or manufacturers that sell slotted and radiused ebony FBs for a reasonable price? I'm a firm believe that building a guitar involves lumber. Using mass produced CNC routed necks and bodies is more "assembling" than building. That said, shaping a compound radius and slotting a fretboard required a fair degree of precision. This being my virgin build, I'm very open to outsourcing those little details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 All of Floyd Rose's nuts are 10" radius (there is a typo in the Floyd Rose nut chart that erroneously lists the R3 as having a 12" radius). The only exception appears to be the R10 nut (15"). Curiously the Schaller equivalent R10 is listed on their site as 10" radius on their "drawings" page and 12" on their "guidelines" page I'm not aware of anyone offering a compound radius service on a blank fretboard. Warmoth offer compound radius but it appears to be for whole neck purchases. Maybe ask our local CNC guru, HuntinDoug? Stewmac offer a 10" - 14.5" compound radius pre-slotted 25.5" scale length board which may be an OK compromise? That said, if it were my first build I'd probably lower the bar a little and go for a constant radius board. You're already diving into the deep end by installing a Floyd. If you're like the rest of us and develop a horrible addiction to this guitar-building malarkey, you'll most likely want to build many further guitars after your first. Makes sense to gradually increase the level of difficulty as you get more builds completed. 10" or 12" pre-radiused boards can be bought from all sorts of places - LMII, Stewmac, Ebay.... I'd suggest going with one of those, plus the FR nut of your choice. Unless you can find a locking nut that is explicitly for a larger radius, don't match nuts with more than radius 2" discrepancy against the fretboard (eg, avoid 10" radius nuts if building a 16" fretboard) - it creates a massive intonation/feel problem at the nut end of the neck which cannot be tuned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I can CNC a compound radius and slot for you. That is not a problem, however you would need to be very specific on the measurements etc. There will be international postage on top of the timber and CNC time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic82 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thank you, demonx! I live in Arizona in the US so postage might cost a little more than normal, but I definitely may take you up on that offer. As for the specificity to would need, do you mean a clear description of scale, fretboard length, radii, width of fret slots, width of fretboard at nut/bridge-end, etc; or would you need a CAD file to help with the CNC? I am inexperienced with CAD, but a friend recently gave me his copy of AutoCAD 2012 when he upgraded to the most recent version. Thanks to the generous tutorials from Prostheta (and a copy of The AutoCAD 2012 Bible) I hope to rectify my aforementioned inexperience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thank you, demonx! I live in Arizona in the US so postage might cost a little more than normal, but I definitely may take you up on that offer. As for the specificity to would need, do you mean a clear description of scale, fretboard length, radii, width of fret slots, width of fretboard at nut/bridge-end, etc; or would you need a CAD file to help with the CNC? I am inexperienced with CAD, but a friend recently gave me his copy of AutoCAD 2012 when he upgraded to the most recent version. Thanks to the generous tutorials from Prostheta (and a copy of The AutoCAD 2012 Bible) I hope to rectify my aforementioned inexperience. Don't bother drawing a CAD, as when it gets exported/imported to my software it gets compromised and I have to draw from scratch anyway. For example a nice curved surface from autocad gets converted to triangles and the autocad arcs convert to lines. So it's best if I do the cad. What I meant by measurements is how thick do you want the board, nut end width, body end width, scale length. Which radius at each end. I don't slot frets on the CNC as I have a seperate setup for that which uses a stewmac blade and slotting templates, so the fret slot width will be generic. It'd be best if you PM me via my facebook page, www.facebook.com/searlsguitars or if you don't have facebook my email can be found on my website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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