High Action

[StratDudeDan]

so far, i've had three acoustics in as many days come to me with the owners wanting lower action and better intonation. however, i sit 'em down and look at 'em, then realize that the action is close to 3/8" at some points (and over in one guitar's case...)! holy hell what happened to these guitars?!

my guesses are as follows:

major neck strain from heavy gauge strings

top warping forcing the bridge to pull up (lack of humidification)

one on guitar, the neck heel was cracked. i repaired it and saw the situation (about 1/4"), so i was stumped.

the relief on the truss rods is set all the way to a place that would practically force a backbow in most situations, so i'm clueless there.

first question:

what could be causing this to happen?

second:

how could i go about fixing this issue?

thanks in advance!

[StratDudeDan]

odd double topic post, please delete one of these.

[rhoads56]

Its an inherent design problem with all accoustics. Shave the saddle, and lose volume. Shave the bridge, and the saddle, recut the string slots, and you'll keep the volume, but lose tone and sustain, and the cost of labour is higher.

Fitting a bridge doctor will enhance volume AND tone (in 95% of cases) and fix the bellied top. Cheap to do, and a great money spinner (400% markup).

If doing a refret, you can shave the fretboard at the nut end, to taper it. Cheap fix when a guitar needs a neck re-set.

Then there are neck resets. If you even need to ask, you should leave them to someone else to do.

[Setch]

Sounds like neck-resets are required. This is a common problem on old instruments, and on poorly constructed new ones. I've seen countless cheapo' accoustics on sale (brand new!) with action in the 1/4 - 3/8" range, and saddles which barely poke above the bridge. The only thing you can do on inexpensive guitars is fit a tall nut and suggest the owner take up slide...

[www]

Could it possibly from an extended high humidity period in your area? Just another thought! I believe it is high humidity that cause higher action.

[Hoser Rob]

That's a neck angle problem for sure IMO. Low humidity'll cause higher action by flattening the top too much, but that couldn't be it - the top would be obviously concave and cracked to hell. High humidity (esp. combined with strings too heavy for the git) is a more likely answer. It'll change the neck angle more.

I think we're talking resets if the action is 3/8" - that's ridiculously high. That's a very skilled and expensive repair unless they have bolt on necks. What kind of guitars these are wasn't mentioned but unless they have serious monetary or sentimental value I'd suggest the owners take up slide.

Oh, BTW, you never, never, NEVER use the truss rod to adjust action! I think you need to read some more books.

Edited November 8, 2004 by Hoser Rob

[G_urr_A]

I believe it is high humidity that cause higher action.

Then living in a desert might help to get that superlow action I've always been looking for!! *gets ready to move* (or not....)

Hoser Rob, there are a few things in your post that I find rather strange.

1. "Low humidity'll cause higher action by flattening the top too much"

If the action is raised when the top is flattened, the top must have been concave to begin with. I've never seen an acoustic with a concave top.

2. "Oh, BTW, you never, never, NEVER use the truss rod to adjust action"

If the neck is bowing to the front, a truss rod adjustment will be needed to get proper action. I don't see how you'd solve that any other way, except for installing magnets on the back of the neck to pull the strings to the necks curve.

Answers, explanations or anything like that are warmly welcomed.

[Hoser Rob]

Explanations? You think using the truss rod is an appropriate way to lower 3/8" action? On what planet?

I KNOW that if the neck is upbowed it'll affect the action. I assumed that would be obvious and self-explanatory. I was trying to be polite. Frankly, if someone thinks you can lower a high action by cranking the rod, they're an idiot and I wouldn't let them change my strings.

[StratDudeDan]

Explanations? You think using the truss rod is an appropriate way to lower 3/8" action? On what planet?

I KNOW that if the neck is upbowed it'll affect the action. I assumed that would be obvious and self-explanatory. I was trying to be polite. Frankly, if someone thinks you can lower a high action by cranking the rod, they're an idiot and I wouldn't let them change my strings.

i didn't say that was the ONLY fix. i just did that to help. in cases of a very slight action change, just 1/6th of a turn looser on the truss rod can typicall pull the neck straighter and allow for everything to sit right.

i wouldn't exactly define it as "cranking..." thank you for your own input and a wee bit of extra-exageration. i used mine to make a point...

that would practically force a backbow in most situations

if i remember my truss rods correctly...this is impossible without a two-way truss rod, and pretty much 90% of cheap acoustics don't have two-ways, if not more. infer what you will, but i'm afraid i can't take a whole lot of advice from you in the future.

[crafty]

Explanations? You think using the truss rod is an appropriate way to lower 3/8" action? On what planet?

I KNOW that if the neck is upbowed it'll affect the action. I assumed that would be obvious and self-explanatory. I was trying to be polite. Frankly, if someone thinks you can lower a high action by cranking the rod, they're an idiot and I wouldn't let them change my strings.

Gee, the action on my Taylor was pretty high, about 1/4 inch or so at the 12th fret, so I "cranked" the truss rod a 1/4 of a turn. For some reason, the action suddenly became lower and easier to play...

I guess the fact that I'm on Mars would explain that aberration of the laws of nature. And I'm sure Dan Erlewine is an idiot, too.

Here's a tip: Learn to not be condescending when replying to posts. I had to learn this, and so did everyone else. People will actually listen and respect your opinion when they don't feel like you're talking down to them. If you feel like calling someone an idiot, then take the high road and don't say anything at all.

[soapbarstrat]

most of the pro acoustic players have a "summer saddle" and a "winter saddle" for their guitar, to get the best action for that time of year. But with your typical acoustic, there's so much thin, exposed wood to move from climate change, that you always have to compromise the action.

Very few acoustics left the factory with a correctly set neck.

When they have that extremely high action, it's like rennovating a house to get all points of the instrument where they need to be. And that gets expensive, and if you don't charge for all the time it takes to get through a multi-problem job like that, you'll want to fall flat on your face real fast.

Sorry if anything I said was written above. My attention span has been shot to hell from wrestling with a Dano bass neck.

Edited November 17, 2004 by soapbarstrat