jai Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 I'm doing a school report and I need to know if the length of a guitar's nut affects the sound. Isn't it really just a player preference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulNeeds Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 I would have thought the length (longest edge) is purely set to fit the width of the neck, and as such would have no bearing on the sound of the instrument whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai Posted May 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Thats what I thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Yes but keep in mind the amount of vibration going through the string and how it is transmitted down through to the neck could make a difference, even though the edge limits the scale length of the open string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulNeeds Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 But that would be down to the width, the area of contact between the nut and the neck, and how the nut is cut - not the length Brian? I know I'm splitting hairs.. but if the question given is the length - that is normally the longest dimension, so... I've yet to see an axe where the nut extends beyond the width of the neck at that point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Actually when it comes to a scientific point it's the mass that effects the sound. This can be the actual size of the contact area between the body and nut as well as the actual weight of the nut since it has been proven that adding mass to the headstock end of a neck changes tone. Of course this would be extremely limited given the size of the average guitar nut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 dont forget that the more of the total length of the string that contacts the nut could effect the sound as well. example, the thin nut on a strat compared to a Gibson style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh-guitarstore.com Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 and the material the nut is made from makes a huge difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai Posted May 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 and the material the nut is made from makes a huge difference their both bone, and you all gave me a lot of info. Thanks. Well, got to go and get an A+ on my paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulNeeds Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Actually when it comes to a scientific point it's the mass that effects the sound. Railways sleepers at dawn? I'm not even digging into the engineering/mechanics/physics of it, and I'm not denying any of the arguments points put forward - simply the semantics of the quesion - the "length" of the nut! In theory, yes, you could have a 6-foot bone glued to the neck of your strat, but I've never seen one! The theories extend to infinite sustain if the string is mounted so that there is no loss of energy at nut, bridge saddle amd along the length of the string (air friction/sound transmission), and without any vibration reaching neck, headstock or body because of infinite neck/body mass and/or perfect contact with the nut and saddle. I mean how far do the theories need to go to answer a simple question, to which the answer is to all practical intents and purposes "none"! BTW - don't think that i'm getting wound up or annoyed over this - this is one situation where the ease of e-communication can lead to misunderstanding, and you can't see my grin, can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh-guitarstore.com Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 well, i think they were taking a few things for granted when they asked the question......sure, mass is in direct corelation to sustain.....whether a human can hear the difference in .0625 of inch is the real question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 I can only think of one human that could and his name is Eric johnson, course he can tell the difference between an alkaline battery and the other from 100 pace's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulNeeds Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 ....he can tell the difference between an alkaline battery and the other from 100 pace's I can taste the difference, but my tongues isn't THAT long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 i can't tell if you're being facetious brian but i think the difference in the two batteries(in active pickup applications)is in background noise and treble response believe it or not.i have the best luck with duracells.i believe that is also what eric johnson uses.BUT i can only tell the difference at high volumes and high gain.eric johnson ,like alot of stage guitarists ,plays very loud.so do i,but only because i love the sound of the speakers being driven hard.believe it or not i put an eveready in my guitar once and i hated it so much i took it right back out. but even though i can hear the difference in batteries,i can't tell the difference in nut length or material.again maybe the gain has something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Actually he's more prone to telling you what battery is in the pedals, seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh-guitarstore.com Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 johnson is a tone freak off the scales.....he is very picky about his setup.....and he does claim to tell what batteries are in a pedal by its sound.....which i think is silly.......he doesnt use duracells, he uses an vintage type 9 volt alkaline i think.....go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 johnson is a tone freak off the scales.....he is very picky about his setup.....and he does claim to tell what batteries are in a pedal by its sound.....which i think is silly.......he doesnt use duracells, he uses an vintage type 9 volt alkaline i think.....go figure I think its all in his head to be honest. Im 1 year from graduating with a degree in electronic engineering , and even i cant see how there could be a difference! , batteries are DC .... so its not as if one will give a cleaner signal than the other . Plus, lets say one duracell has a voltage of 9.1, and an energizer has 8.9 V , well i`ll swear that the next energizer will have 9.1 V and maybe the next duracell off the line produces 8.85V They are all gonna vary somewhat , so anyone who claims they can tell the difference between two nine volt batteries is smokin too much! ........ in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I can't hear the difference between brand new batteries, but I can hear a difference in some effect pedals when the DC of a battery drops below a certain treshold. I have a fuzz that only sounds great with new batteries. As soon as the batteries have some hours, the effect starts to sound like crap... I hate myself for hearing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 trust me there is a difference.i can hear the difference between alder and mahogany,different wirings of the same guitar,or 2 identical emg 81s .i can hear the difference in the kind of patch cable used to connect a head to a speaker cabinet.one thing i have learned is that people are ALL different.i play guitars with the hottest electronics i can get,through the hottest amps i can find,and it's taken me over 10 years to get the sound i want.do you know that some people can't tell the difference between string brands of the same gauge?if i open a window in my room my rig sounds different.just believe me when i tell you that if eric johnson prefers a type of battery over another,there is probably a reason.this is also why when you play through another persons rig you NEVER touch the amp without permission.and i can't speak for johnson but i smoke nothing.don't get me wrong though i am not mad.i just want you to understand that there is more in this world than one person can comprehend.we all just comprehend a different part of it.that's why we have different styles of music and different occupations and different types of foods etc.... diversity is WONDERFUL and makes life worth living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryeisnotcool Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 the word "tone" is a very touchy subject! i personaly think its a matter of opinion. each person usually has a different tone to there own rig and its set to what he or she likes (look i used"he or she" guitar playing is unisexual!) personally i love the tone of my rig, it was better when my dual shoman worked but right now i wil settle with the carvin head for my clean channel. but i hear some peoples rigs and i hate the sound, but they love it so to each his own. example- rush i hate his studio sounds and tone but if you listen to some live recordings, his sound is awsome! but since we digresed off of the subject of big or small nuts i will bring us back. if a guitar nut is 1 7/16 x 3/16 x 1/4 i would say that the 1 7/16 is the width because we say "the width of the neck " and i would say the nut is 3/16 long because you look down the lenght of the neck. and then the 1/4 would be the hight off of the headstock. in theory the longer the nut 3/16- 5/16(wich is what i make mine) would definetly change the tone like brian sayed. i use 5/16, yes its long but if the strings are contacting more of the nut wich contacts more of the neck, in theory it would resonate more throughout the guitar therfore giving a better tone! thats why i think neck through guitars have a better tone than bolt ons or mortised necks. the srings are contacting more of the same mass of wood. i use corion for my nuts its about the same density as bone and the strings slide very nicely through it. i also use graphiteif im using a trem. but i hate trems so i dont usually do them. except i like old bigsbys i put one on a 77 mustang it looks pretty cool! rye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 i'm sorry i just realised i forgot the most important point in the debate between batteries.the argument is not between brands of batteries,it's between types,alkaline vs non alkaline.i believe that is where the difference is.i just use duracell because they seem to last longer.oh and eric johnson is one of the rare musicians with perfect pitch,so that also may have something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh-guitarstore.com Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 i think erics argument was with the volts carried in the battery being consistant....if you search the web, youll find where he talks about it...its very annoying as for westerman, there is so much involved in hearing and how we percieve things....you can have the same rig hooked up without moving anything have it sound different on 2 different days....its all how we perceive things, how we think we perceive things and what we are used to..... i think the people that are never satisfied with their tone have other issues they should worry about.....for me, good amp, an ok guitar and im comfortable with my playing = good tone.....no one has better tone than eddie van halen(or i should say had) and he had the worst piece o crap guitar in the world, but he could play and he had a good amp(which wasnt high output).......less is always more......keep your pickups low and let your amp breathe the way its supposed to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 eddie van halen does have great tone for his style.but i play with everything hot rodded because i enjoy it.low output pickups don't do it for me.my whole point is that everyone is different.i don't know what makes certain batteries work best for certain applications,i just hear the difference and can't stand it.everyone has their own signature sound based on their preference.i use dc adapters for my pedals.i only hear the difference through my emg 81s,which are not exactly high output.for me it's about clarity.low output pickups are muddy in high gain situations,and i keep my gain at about 80% for my sound.i don't know what you mean by letting my amp breath though.once again i think that is something you hear which i do not.i wish i had recording capabilities cause i think you would enjoy my sound.oh well i guess i should do something about that.for my money i think stevie ray had the best tone ever recorded.but i would never be able to play through it. i guess it's like rye said,tone is subjective.look at nirvana for example. EDIT:i just read my reply and it sounds testy.i don't mean it to be.i greatly respect everyones opinion and discussions like this are why i am here. p.s. maybe it is in my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 ed has the best tone ever... LONG LIVE KING EDWARD!!! p.s. i have a wolfgang, and the pick-ups are really really hot. i know ed used to have a PAF or something in the FRANKINSTEIN, but didn't he rewind it to be hotter? i play through a 5150, and i don't know what you mean by breathe through, because it screams through . i think that if you like the way you sound when you play, then you have great tone. ED would sound great with a POS guitar through an amp with no speakers p.s. i love this place. you all rule!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh-guitarstore.com Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 well most of the tone dawgs out there dont consider the peavey stuff when they consider ed's tone......its mostly the up to and around fair warning that they talk about.....his original pick up was just a paf with some extra windings....but he never really cared about his pick ups, just as long as it was a paf style....its a tough concept for younger guys to grasp; the lower output pick up through an cranked amp.....everyone always thinks you need everything on 10 and have the hottest of everyting...but all that does is hide things...let you amp sing , i say! oh, do i practice what i preach????? no, not all the way.....but, thats cuz im too old to play so loud now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.