Graphite Guitar

[Matt]

Hi guys,

Had an idea of an all graphite guitar for my nect project, but i dont know anything about it.

Does anyone know what it might sound like and where i could get it from (I live in England) and would it be strong enough?

Is this a rad or bad idea?

Matt

[deadmike]

it sounds like a great idea.

ive only seen graphite necks and only from american companies.

no idea where you'd get a big lump of graphite to make a body out of, its hard enough getting wood in the uk!

not completely sure, but if my sources are correct, it would weight a hell of a lot!

[Maiden69]

I think it would be extremely difficult, but, here you go,

http://www.graphitestore.com/itemDetails.a...id=22&curPage=1

here is an example of a board that might work for a body, this is only 1" thick, you need about 1 3/4" , so that will be 2 plates, you need especial tools to work on graphite, remember that graphite is considered twice as strong as the same weight(size.. I can't remember now) in steel. So that will make the body not as heavy as mentioned before, I think it will me heavier than a wood body, but again try making a body of Ipe and the weight is as much as steel.

Good luck,

[iskim86]

you can always route chambers to cut down on the weight...

[Jon Bell]

I think parkey fly guitars are partly made of graphite. It seems to be a type of graphite netting that they use rather than just a slab of graphite.

[Jester700]

I think parkey fly guitars are partly made of graphite. It seems to be a type of graphite netting that they use rather than just a slab of graphite.

No, the finish is some kinda plasticky composite, but the guitars are wood.

[Page_Master]

sounds like a cool idea, yet a few things to discuss.

i don't know what a graphite guitar is going to sound like, it may sound good since graphite is used for nuts. i don't know where to get enough for a guitar. it will definitely be strong enough, it is used on tennis rackets. but see that's the thing, graphite is just carbon. imagine the process to turn that carbon into a strong substance. like carbon fiber, expensive and time consuming to make. so if you want to do this project there's the problems. expensive and hard to get. plus you may need some decent equipment to shape it.

if money is an issue, use the real thing - timber. but if money is not an issue, by all means, make a start. a graphite guitar could be a very interesting project.

[Hotrock]

You could possibly make a plug and mold using an existing guitar and then try to lay carbon fibre over this. I'm not too sure if it’s possible to do carbon fibre at home though. I’m pretty sure that you need to inject the resin into the fibre by pressure and heat, pressure being the problem for doing it at home.

As for using solid graphite, I would be a bit dubious, I’m certainly not saying that it can’t be done (I mean how the hell should I know never having tried it) but my alarm bells are ringing. I think that graphite is very brittle, well looking at the structure of it, it damn well should be and this would probably make it a bugger to work with.

My advise would be to buy a small amount of graphite and try to do all the processes of making a guitar on this scrap piece. That way you know what you’re getting into and also…..

….. you can tell me the results

[jer7440]

Most pencils use graphite instead of lead, so you can imagine the consistency of the solid graphite. In the injection molding business they use graphite to create electrodes. I've seen the mess this stuff makes when you machine it, imagine crushing a pencil "lead" into a fine powder and then blowing all around the room. I think when things are made of graphite like guitar necks, golf club shafts and what not, It is more of a composite than pure graphite.

Edited November 22, 2004 by jer7440

[tirapop]

Yes, you can do graphite at home. It's a fiber, just like fiberglass and you can use the same resins. High end structural composites or highly automated manufacture use expensive things like autoclaves, vacuum-assisted-resin-injectors, pultrusion dies, etc.

Here are a few graphite construction sites I've come across.

Making motorcycle bodywork.

Making graphite tubes.

Building your own graphite bicycle.

[Devon Headen]

Very interesting links. The Driskill Guitars (www.driskillguitars.com) website has a page where he made his own CF.

[Hotrock]

I stand corrected....

....And I'm happy that I'm wrong. Now where can I get some from

[tirapop]

Try www.aircraftspruce.com

[Matt]

Thanks alot guys that was really helpfull.

Well ive managed to get a slab easily big enough for the body from the tech guy at the workshop, now i just need a bit for the neck-thru.

Graphite is heavy so i will put chambers in. Do they have to be a specific size? and if it was semi-hollow, do the holes through the top need to be a certain shape or size?

Im looking at ways in which to finish it. I tried a bit of polish and it gave a nive dark matt finish.

Graphite apart form being brittle and creates alot of dust, is soft and so i think machining it will be a breaze. (sanding should be lightspeed!)

I JUST DONT WANT TO DROP IT WHEN ITS FINISHED!!!!!

Matt

[RGGR]

you need especial tools to work on graphite, remember that graphite is considered twice as strong as the same weight(size.. I can't remember now) in steel.

Graphite is quite easy to work with......laminated Kite boards and motorcycle fenders myself. Have been thinking about all graphite guitar too.

There are some graphite accounstics out there.

You laminate graphite cloth with epoxy resin. This is a very teadious and smelly process. With good breating equipment is quite doable at home.

Type in expoy/graphite/cloth/twill in google and some godo reading will come up.

There are some great sources of graphite in England...but I will have to look up the addresses for that.

You could take normal wood guitar body and laminate cloth layer on top of it.

Would give guitar gret appearance. I wouldn't advice building one out of a solid block of carbon. Would be very expensive.

Tooling on Carbon fibre is actually very easy. It's stronger than steel.......but only when you pull at it. Not when you put router too it. Just watch the dust particles.

Wear breathing protection, and cover your skin.

Going the laminate route you wouldn't have to deal with that routing what so ever.

Just use scissors to trim cloth to size.

[tirapop]

I'd advise against routing out big slabs of cured graphite. Most of the epoxy resins the fibers are bonded in are toxic. You really don't want to breath the dust or track it into your house on your clothes.

The graphite itself is very conductive. If you get a lot of the dust into electric devices you can short them out. When NATO bombed Yugoslavia, they wanted to drop the power grid without doing any lasting damage. They dropped bombs that dispensed graphite filaments to short out power substations and transmission lines.

I think there are some tool wear issues with cured graphite. I know they make special drill bits, brad point looking things, that are supposed to reduce fiber breakout... when a fiber on the surface of a part doesn't get cut by the drill and wraps around it, getting pulled out of the resin surface.

If you want a hollow bodied graphite guitar, mold it hollow or take a couple thin cured skins and bond them to some bent/formed sides.

[soapbarstrat]

I don't know if it's true, or if it was about graphite exactly, but I heard something about carbon fiber or graphite has tiny fragments that can flake off during cutting/machining, and can easily poke into your skin and go into you blood-stream and kill you.

Graphite acoustic guitars :

http://www.rainsong.com/

I'm still waiting for one of you teenagers to go to college and invent a synthetic wood substitute that will put both wood and graphite to shame. But that'll never happen if you all keep watching MTV

[RGGR]

I'd advise against routing out big slabs of cured graphite. Most of the epoxy resins the fibers are bonded in are toxic. You really don't want to breath the dust or track it into your house on your clothes.

You could eat carbon fibre cloth and it would pass your system without doing any damage to your body. Non toxic what so ever.

What you should watch out for are the dust and small fibre parts.

Like Asbestos.....these small fibre parts can irritate the skin (internally and externally). If they wound up in your lungs and get stuck, they can cause cancer.

Carbon fibre is nothing like dealing with Asbestos......but same kinda processes take place...with dust and all.....so you just want to be careful.

[LGM Guitars]

A few things for thought.

First, Carbon fiber itself is not toxic, the resins required for layup are. They contain organic amines, they are highly carcinogenic, particularly when heated (ie routing)

For Carbon fiber to be laid up properly, it should be cured in an autoclave under pressure, it will still cure and be strong, but not as strong as if done in an autoclave.

Driskill does not make carbon fiber, he does his own layups with vacuum bagging, (the next best thing to autoclaving)

Carbon fiber when cutting is deadly, the particles that you breath in will never leave your body, they can also cause irreversable damage to you lungs due to the abraisive nature of CF. You can easily get microscopic slivers that will travel your blood stream and possibly end up stuck in your heart. Wearing gloves is highly recommended.

The original parker fly guitars were Poplar with a Carbon fiber basket weave exoskeleton. The Parker fly classic guitars still use this on the backs, and the necks. The parker fly fretboards are a layup of carbon fiber like you see on driskills site. The frets are then set into the carbon using an autoclave. The downside to the parker frets, is they really can't be removed as I understand, this is why they are stainless.

Rainsong acoustic guitars are carbon basket weave layed up like driskill does for the bodies.

Using CF is no different than fiberglass, it requires a mold, and a good layup. It is far more dangerous than fiberglass due to it's strength and ability to penetrate with small slivers. Unlike fiberglass, once in your system CF will never break down, it's there for good.

It also requires very good sheilding if you use it for a guitar body as CF can create a lot of RF interference (in other words, it would become possible to pickup radio signals etc like some active pickups will do)

I've used CF extensively in the RC models I build, particularly the jets, it's a wonderful material, I love it to death, you just have to be VERY careful what you do with it. Without a proper layup under pressure though, just remember, it's no stronger than fiberglass. It needs the pressure to fully saturate all fibers, otherwise it's like a chain link fence, it will just fold up again.

[RGGR]

I couldn't have said it better. Just want to add that for the amature...using vacuum bagging is the only real option. Some great results can be attained with this.

[KTLguitars]

I think people here are talking about two different things -graphite or carbon is two names of the same thing but can have very different physical properties. Carbon in a natural solid condition, like the plate in a post above, is very brittle and soft and doesn't support the forces in e.g a neck joint. On the other hand carbon fibres are an extremely strong and stiff material, e.g compared to steel. You use the fibres in the same way as glass fibre to reinforce plastics. normally you use epoxy reinforced with carbon fibre and done in an autoclave or by vakuum bagging you can have an very high strength to weight ratio.

I came across this Site a while ago when searching for carbon fibres (haven't tried to order from them yet). They also have descriptions on how to do etc.

[Dugz Ink]

I just found this site, while trying to research graphite necks; BassLab guitars.

D~s