thrashncrust Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 whats up everyone, for christmas i got 2 dimarzio's that ive been dying to get. evolution and fred, green and blue. well they arent f-spaced and they need to be, but i dont have the time to send them back to musiciansfriend, wait for them to process the exchange and then wait for them to send them back. so im just gonna keep them and use them. but, how much of a difference is there gonna be without the f-space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy_Gecko Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I have never made the mistake of trying to fit a non f spaced in a f spaced guitar. All I know is that Dimarzio and other companies now offer different sized humbuckers for F-spaced bridge sizes. My advice would be measure the pole piece diameters and you'll see. Otherwise I guess you'll have to pull a Van Halen and mount it skewed which I dont suggest because 1. The pole pieces dont line as much ass they should and 2. It looks atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yeah, avoid the inevitable problems - send 'em back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 what i wanted to know was, how much of a difference in tone is there gonna be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biohazard Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 sorry to sound dumb, but what is f-spaced??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 F-SPACING, STANDARD SPACING What is F-spacing? All of our full-size humbuckers except the X2N® are available in two polepiece spacings. F-spacing refers to the wider of the two spacings. For proper string alignment and balanced output, F-spaced humbuckers should be used in the bridge position on all guitars with string spacing at the bridge of 2.1" (53 mm) or greater. On these guitars, if the nut width is 1-11/16” (43 mm) or greater, F-spaced pickups can be used in the neck position as well. Why are there two different spacings? A long time ago (in the 20th century, actually) the electric guitar world was divided between Gibson and Fender designs. One of the differences between the two was string spacing. In general, Gibson chose a narrower string spacing at the bridge than Fender, and therefore the polepieces on Gibson humbuckers were closer together than the magnets on Fender pickups. When guitar shops started installing humbuckers in the bridge position of Strats, it was obvious that the strings didn’t line up with the polepieces, and if the E strings were too far outside, the sound could suffer. Our first humbuckers followed the original Gibson spacing, and we call them standard-spaced. When we released our first humbuckers with wider spacing, Floyd Rose bridges were very popular. Floyd string-spacing is the same as Fender spacing, so we naturally called the new pickups F-spaced. Source - Dimarzio Site, FAQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Vai Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 You should exchange it. The polepieces will be off, which sometimes isn't a huge problem, but you won't be getting the best tone possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 i might just exchange it because im swirling my guitar, and i dont want the pickups installed and then have to take them out again and have them reinstalled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Well, you could exchange them and get the F-spaced pickups, or you could simply choose not to worry about it. I've used a non-F-spaced SD Alnico II Pro on my Strat bridge position for about five years now. No tone or volume problems here. That's with a relatively "weak" pickup output. The magnetic fields are so wide on passive pickups, especially Evos, that having the polepiece off a little isn't going to hurt your tone or reduce your volume THAT much. Vai might know the difference, but that's VAI. With a powerful pickup like the Evo in the bridge, you will not notice a difference in volume enough to crap your pants over. Also, the only thing that will really affect TONE is where you mount the pickup, say neck compared to bridge. The difference in spacing between "standard" and "F" spacing will not make a difference in tone between two otherwise identical pickups mounted in the bridge in the same type of guitar. Also, you probably won't need to exchange the neck pickup at all. The polepieces are probably lined up just fine. Tell you what. Mount the pickup in the guitar--but don't wire it up. String it up and see where the strings fall over the pickup. If the high-E is more than 1/8 or 2mm from the polepiece--you may want to consider exchanging it. But if it lays just on the very edge or within 1/16 or 1mm, don't worry about it, just keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Well, you could exchange them and get the F-spaced pickups, or you could simply choose not to worry about it. I've used a non-F-spaced SD Alnico II Pro on my Strat bridge position for about five years now. No tone or volume problems here. That's with a relatively "weak" pickup output. The magnetic fields are so wide on passive pickups, especially Evos, that having the polepiece off a little isn't going to hurt your tone or reduce your volume THAT much. Vai might know the difference, but that's VAI. With a powerful pickup like the Evo in the bridge, you will not notice a difference in volume enough to crap your pants over. Also, the only thing that will really affect TONE is where you mount the pickup, say neck compared to bridge. The difference in spacing between "standard" and "F" spacing will not make a difference in tone between two otherwise identical pickups mounted in the bridge in the same type of guitar. Also, you probably won't need to exchange the neck pickup at all. The polepieces are probably lined up just fine. Tell you what. Mount the pickup in the guitar--but don't wire it up. String it up and see where the strings fall over the pickup. If the high-E is more than 1/8 or 2mm from the polepiece--you may want to consider exchanging it. But if it lays just on the very edge or within 1/16 or 1mm, don't worry about it, just keep it. thanks again, i might try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 And if you do decide to exchange it send them direct to DiMarzio you'll get them back muck quicker and actually thats the way they want it handled if you read the paperwork that came in each box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 alright, well the fred in the neck works fine, but i have a question, i want a bridge pickup that gives me a very bassy metal crunch, but also good for soloing with not alot of ear piercing trebles (my old kramer quadrail sounded like a wah all the way up and it was horrible) will the evo do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 im thinking about getting a dimarzio super 3, anyone ever played one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Cavanaugh Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) The patented technology making Evos the way they are, is by having little polepieces in-between the screws, hidden underneath the bobbin's top. Other than that I'm pretty sure they're Super Distortions with Alnico V magnets. BTW, I tried this with a PAF type pickup. It really makes the sound more linear and reduces the treble. Very interesting sound! OK, in your case, the EVO wont work well. If you insist on going with DiMarzio, I think a Tone Zone will work for you. Edited January 2, 2005 by Kyle Cavanaugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 what will an EVO sound like then? any soundclips on the net? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniboy Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 from my limited experience, normal spaced humbuckers installed in a trem-equipped guitar won't make much difference tonally. the 2 e strings will be off-axis slightly. only thing is when you bend the high e, you will notice a slight increase in presense and output when your string passes the centre of the polepiece. as for pickups, dimarzio has a couple that fits your description. i would not recommend the tone zone. mud city in the wrong guitar. i find the air zone a more forgiving pickup. there's also the norton/air norton. they will suit your needs fine. super distortion is a better choice compared to the sd3. if i am not mistaken, the sd3 has less bass and more highs. dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 well i went to dimarzios site, and listened to the soundclips. unfortunatly they dont have SD3 sound clips. i might just go with breed bridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniboy Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 well i went to dimarzios site, and listened to the soundclips. unfortunatly they dont have SD3 sound clips. i might just go with breed bridge what guitar is your pickups going in to? woods, construction, effects and amps play a big part in your tone. also, is there someone's tone you dig? dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 i have some sort of kramer baretta neckthru (dont know the model) , i have a crate 120 watt blue voodoo. i like friedmans tone on the song "go off" by cacophony, i also like jason beckers tone on anything, michael angelos tone, vai's tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniboy Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 friedman uses a duncan jb and the duncan custom was designed for becker. i am not very sure what angelo use. the breed was build to thicken things up ala a les paul in a trem equipped guitar. it may suit your requirement but not ideal for shredding. but i have not heard or played one though. i am more familiar with duncan pickups and for shredding, 3 humbuckers comes to mind. jb, custom and distortion. that said, these 3 are pretty bright pickups as clarity and fast tracking is needed for shredding. of these, only the jb uses a5 magnet and the rest are ceramic. you may want to go for ceramic magnet pickups. the have the in-your-face tone that cuts through the mix and if they are too bright for certain applications, there's always the tone control. you can also fiddle around with pot and capacitor values to fine-tune the tone you are looking for. hope that helps! dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 friedman uses a duncan jb and the duncan custom was designed for becker. i am not very sure what angelo use. the breed was build to thicken things up ala a les paul in a trem equipped guitar. it may suit your requirement but not ideal for shredding. but i have not heard or played one though. i am more familiar with duncan pickups and for shredding, 3 humbuckers comes to mind. jb, custom and distortion. that said, these 3 are pretty bright pickups as clarity and fast tracking is needed for shredding. of these, only the jb uses a5 magnet and the rest are ceramic. you may want to go for ceramic magnet pickups. the have the in-your-face tone that cuts through the mix and if they are too bright for certain applications, there's always the tone control. you can also fiddle around with pot and capacitor values to fine-tune the tone you are looking for. hope that helps! dani well i only shred with the neck pickup... so, im mainly looking for a bridge that is really crunchy, good for like scooped mids and thrash stuff with lots of mids, i will only buy dimarzio because they have the bright colors and stuff. thanks for the help btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Cavanaugh Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Hmm, I didn't know that the Duncan Custom was designed for Jason Becker, cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniboy Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 no worries bro! but i am getting a bit confuse here. you want a pickup with scooped mids at the same time with lots of mids? btw, duncans do have bright colors too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 no worries bro! but i am getting a bit confuse here. you want a pickup with scooped mids at the same time with lots of mids? btw, duncans do have bright colors too! i meant i wanted a pickup that sounds good with scooped mids and a really middy thrash sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniboy Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 i see! there are 2 ways you can approach this. either get a scoop mids pickup and dial in the mids when you need it or get a middy pickup and cut the mids. from my limited experience, i find dialing in mids is much easier than cutting them. also, slightly scooped pickups have an inherent clearer tone and pick attack as compared to their mid oriented brothers. however, boosting mids (as do all eq) do result in a slight increase in electronic noise which imo, is neglectable. just a thought, i do like the slightly middy fred in the bridge, great rhythm and lead tone. remains clear and tight under high gain and cleans up real well. for something scooped, have a look at the steve's special. for example, marty's duncan jb has a bump in the high mids where jason's duncan custom is more scooped in nature. try and get as much info you can and if possible, listen to them. try seymourduncan.com. they have all their humbucker clips on their site. once you decided you like the tone of certain pickups, check their eq and match it with a dimarzio equivalent. do bear in mind that your bridge bucker should be higher in output than your neck or you will have problem balancing them output-wise hope i can help narrow down your choice of pickups. all the best! dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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