Finishing Ash?

[mailman]

can ash be painted like any other wood?

or can i only stain it?

basicly, what options do i have?

[Maiden69]

Q 1 Ash top Mahogany back and All ash body

Q 2, DO NOT STAIN IT. It is extremely difficult to get a nice even stain job on ash.

Q 3. APint, any type, the green is water based Createx airbrush paint with nitro as a top clear coat. The Blue one is Duplicolor MEtalcast with poly as a top coat, I don't recomend using poly over metalcast as mine peel out, but you can use duplicolors clear (which sometimes takes forever to dry) or any other clear not nitro based. I used Krylon triple thick glaze on this one but I left it outside and the sun bubbled the clear, as long as you don't do that mistake I think you can use it and it is a better choice than the duplicolor.

[Daniel Sorbera]

what paint is nitro compatable?

[Maiden69]

I don't know if there is a rule, but Iknow that at least the duplicolor (which is acrylik based) gets lifted or cracked if you top it with nitro, I haven't tried on an completely cured guitar, but I'm about to try.

Createx paints are so cheap and they come in so many colors that I see no point in looking for an alternative for now. Until I get into poly, and even then I seen a lot of car and bike graphics places that still use createx for the colors on their work. I think that as a rule you should use a paint that dries very fast, and another advantage of Createx is that you can use an halogen lamp to speed up the cure time. I shot 3 different colors in one day, and this included a base, the main color, maksing, then a second color, then a pinstripe, and I handled the guitar during all the stages. no paint lift, no blemishes, and coated with nitro the next day, with no problems what so ever.

Createx Site

[mailman]

if you're not supposed to stain, then how did you get that trans-blue? (and other trans colors for that matter)

[mailman]

oh, and is there such thing as trans-white?

[AlGeeEater]

Mailman,

The Blue one is Duplicolor MEtalcast with poly as a top coat, I don't recomend using poly over metalcast as mine peel out, but you can use duplicolors clear (which sometimes takes forever to dry) or any other clear not nitro based.  I used Krylon triple thick glaze on

←

[mailman]

sorry, didnt make sense to me at first

<<is not a paint guy

[jnewman]

As I understand it, professional outfits that do transparent colors on bodies that don't dye well do it with sprayguns (airbrushes), and spray a few layers of clear lacquer (or poly) to seal the wood, then spray lacquer (or poly) with alcohol-based aniline dyes dissolved in it until the colors are right, then spray clear laquer (can you see where this is going? or poly...) over the top to gloss it up and give it a thick finish and keep the color from fading as the top layers of lacquer wear off over time.

Every ash-bodied Fender I've ever seen with a chip in the finish down to the wood showed unstained, natural colored wood.

This is basically what Maiden69 is suggesting, just with rattlecans instead of airbrush equipment (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Maiden69 - did you seal with clear before spraying blue, or did the duplicolor just dry quickly enough that it didn't really have time to soak unevenly into the ash?

[Maiden69]

I sprayed it directly over the bare ash after filling the grain with black epoxy. I havent had any problem doing it this way. this one was done with createx the same way, on the bare ash and there was no problem with the evenness of the color.

[i-j-c]

20 odd years ago when I made my first Ash strat...I stained directly onto the wood. I used Colron wood dyes which were meant to be used that way. I used a green and a blue and mixed them to get the colour I wanted.

I applied the stain direct to the woood with a sponge, wiping off the excess and allowing 24 hours between coats till I got the desired shade.

Please do not get me wrong, I am not advising anyone to do it this way...simply saying what I did back then.

I finished it of with about 12 coats of laquer. I kept the guitar for about 10 years or so and then sold it. In the time I had it...it still looked as original...with no fading etc.

Having since started up again making guitars...I finished my first (since starting up again) the other week. I did the same thing...to basswood...a red wood stain applied direct to the wood and laquer over the top.

Having said that, I did experiment after the first ash strat with several others...by filling the grain, sanding back, a couple of coats of laquer, then spraybrushed a stain onto that...then laquer again.

I have no idea which is best, but they both worked out well for me and the stain was even in both cases.

But when all comes to all, I would certainly go with any recommendation of the more experienced builders here....I'm just a humble hobbyist....

If I can be permitted to offer any advice....that would be to test both methods on scrap / cut off bits first....

[RRVCustom]

so if i understand rite, ash needs grainfilled? or can i just use a sanding sealer, like on stewmac's site?

then sand back whatever i use first, and put down color coats, then clear lacquer ( or poly?) and polish?

my RR3 replica is ash, and im really n00bish. first guitar built, 2nd owned. (although the first i own is a firstact from WM, so...)

[Maiden69]

You have to grain fill, either using Stews grain filler or epoxy. I have used bothan I must say that despite how hard the epoxy is to sand back, (if by any mistake you leave it too thick or don't scrape it right) it's a better choice than grain filler. You can use black llike I did or get the clear one and tone it to what ever color you like using stain.

You might get away with sanding sealer, but it will take a lot of cans and a lot of sanding,

Other than that finish the way I posted above.

[mledbetter]

I've had no problem getting evenness using a dye directly onto the ash, but you hvae to be very careful about the grain raising. I used waterbased dye which i would imagine goes on more evenly than alcohol based.

The problem is grainfilling.. If you dye it dark and then sand the grain back down, it's the grain you want dark that will be scalped by the sandpaper leaving the grin LIGHTER rather than darker.

So while i don't think evenness is the issue, it's a pain in the butt to figure out how to use dye with grainfiller.. You save some headache by tinting some nitro and spraying a trans finish.

[Guitarfrenzy]

As I understand it, professional outfits that do transparent colors on bodies that don't dye well do it with sprayguns (airbrushes), and spray a few layers of clear lacquer (or poly) to seal the wood, then spray lacquer (or poly) with alcohol-based aniline dyes dissolved in it until the colors are right, then spray clear laquer (can you see where this is going? or poly...) over the top to gloss it up and give it a thick finish and keep the color from fading as the top layers of lacquer wear off over time.

Every ash-bodied Fender I've ever seen with a chip in the finish down to the wood showed unstained, natural colored wood.

This is basically what Maiden69 is suggesting, just with rattlecans instead of airbrush equipment (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Maiden69 - did you seal with clear before spraying blue, or did the duplicolor just dry quickly enough that it didn't really have time to soak unevenly into the ash?

←

Your exactly right, they wash coat, grainfill, then spray on the translucent color over it. Actually they just add toner color to the clear though, no need to use dye. When I was first starting out with ash wood, I soon discovered that the ash piece I had just wouldn't dye correctly, with any type of dye I used, waterbased and alcohol also. It just looked real blotchy and uneven, also to my eye very unprofessional and unacceptable for a fine finish. I'm not saying that every piece of ash will dye blotchy, but then again why do something that only works for you some of the time, when you could use methods that the major manufactures use to get excellent results all the time. After I discovered what Fender did I didn't stop there, I emailed PRS's department and they was kind enough to disclose how they accomplished their Swamp Ash Specials finish. Well guess what, they did the same method as Fender. So basically, you can do a finish by applying the dye directly to ash, but just know that it might not be the best method for a great finish. Do a search on this site, because this has already been discussed before.