backwoodsguitars Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Hello, I have been going over the pros and cons of different styles of guitar building. I have made mostly neck thru guitars and one or two bolt ons. I am thinking about trying to make this my full time income and I have been contemplating making bolt ons because in theory they would take less time because I can buy necks. But I think I can build neck thrus better and not take THAT much more time (mostly waiting for the glue to dry). I prefer the neck thrus because with differing colors of wood laminated together on the neck or at the heel or wing/body joints, it looks awsome and they sound great I think. But I am trying to look at this from a business perspective of time invested and also giving people what they want. I had planned to sell by word of mouth and have a website also. Do any of you have guitar building down to a one man assembly line type operation for neck thru or bolt on neck guitars? I am needing any help you pros would offer. Backwoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 the neck is the heart and soul of the instrument.if you are buying the neck then make sure you go with a truly great neck...otherwise you are just selling more mediocre guitars and i think you will fail because you don't have the marketing budget the big manufacturers have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanKirk Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I have made mostly neck thru guitars and one or two bolt ons. Which is it...one or two? hehe Maybe try and make more bolt-ons and keep track of your time, material & tooling costs and compare that to your neck-through building costs. Track it as precisely as possible or it's a waste of time. Also, look for something that will make your product stand out above all the other builders that are already out there. I know of a builder (Gugliotti guitars) that doesn't hardly make anything himself. He out-sources most everything. USACG for the neck and bodies (minus the top) Roxxy for the finish ...not sure of the name right now but another person for the set-up. The one thing he does is cap the bodies with an aluminum top. They actually play really well but they should because he covers the out-sourcing costs in the final guitar cost (of course) but that puts him in a price range with the big boys. Hard to compete with big names and marketing depts. especially, when it comes to stubborn guitarists who buy into big-name hype. For most builders I think it's a labor of love than any ideas of making a full-time income out of it but who knows? Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 You have to keep the options open. If you just plan on stamping out the same guitar (or design) then its basically up to you. Bolt on or neckthru both have their pros and cons and one is as good as the other. If you choose one don't forget how to do the other, there is always more business opportunity in staying flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsguitars Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 VanKirk, I hated to lie and not mention the first bolt on(my first guitar ever). I would like to forget about it . It was a disaster it sort of had a tremelo built in the neck if you know what I mean I learned alot about bridge placement on that one too . It was a first attempt though. The 2nd bolt on I built after I had built a few neck thrus and the 2nd bolt on turned out fairly well The more I think about it I really love to build guitars especially the neck thru styles. I build mine from scratch and I can glue up the "blank" and glue on the fingerboard and shape the headstock before I even decide what shape the bouts will be. It is nice to be able to start before final details are decided. If I dont build what I like I may become inclined to hate it and it will become more like a job. They say if you like what you do you will never work a day in your life. Backwoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gsrguitars Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 To me... Neck thru, more sustain. But... ....you can't change the neck of the guitar. Pros and Cons. -G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 You could sell neck-thru's for more $$$, and they have a more boutique-ness to them. I would personally focus on just making instruments of a high quality and sell a few, basically as a hobby or supplement income, instead of looking at the cheapest, easiest ways to blast 'em out. There are lots of guys that do that, and it's hard to turn it into a full time career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 i am really starting to love my set necks...easier to rout the cavities before glue up and you can still design it with as good o' upper fret access as a neck thru..but it has much more tone than a bolt on(in my opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Has much more WHAT to the tone. You can't just have more tone! I'd like to try to build one of each, but I fear that my lack of equipment will hold me back. I need to get cozy with someone who has access to a nice bandsaw, thickness sander, and jointer! I wouldn't want to recommend one over the other. I don't know enough about anything. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 You can't just have more tone! don't tell me what i can't have! sweetness...a "wetter" tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsguitars Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 i am really starting to love my set necks...easier to rout the cavities before glue up and you can still design it with as good o' upper fret access as a neck thru..but it has much more tone than a bolt on(in my opinion) ← I agree with that because I feel a set neck or bolt on lets you hear more of the tone from the body wood. On my set necks the only tone you hear is from the neck wood and very little if any from the wing wood. Does this make sense? Backwoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 sweetness...a "wetter" tone ← That still doesn't help! Wetness refers to effects! A 'wet' tone is one with lots of reverb in most cases, though it's not always 'verb. Sweetness is another intangible! I know you have it in you to come up with a more descriptive... er... description! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 sweetness...a "wetter" tone ← That still doesn't help! Wetness refers to effects! A 'wet' tone is one with lots of reverb in most cases, though it's not always 'verb. Sweetness is another intangible! I know you have it in you to come up with a more descriptive... er... description! ← sorry...you are wrong.sweetnes is no more intangible than tone is itself.go back to school ,young man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Ah, the student trying to teach the teacher. Go back to school? No thanks, lice breakout on Friday. <ugh> Well, they're both undefinable. I'm still waiting for you to tell me WHY it's sweet or WHAT KIND of tone you have lots of. It'll amount to the exact same thing-- either your description of 'sweetness' will imply what kind of tone you have, or the description of your tone will explain what you find to be sweet about it. Sure, it's impossible to ever fully put into words what it is about your tone that is sweet. It's sound, after all, and not words! Yet, we do have the tools of language at our disposal to at least make a better effort than, "I have lots of tone and wet sweetness." This teacher gives your description a level 2. Does not meet provincial standards. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Ah, the student trying to teach the teacher. Go back to school? No thanks, lice breakout on Friday. <ugh> Well, they're both undefinable. I'm still waiting for you to tell me WHY it's sweet or WHAT KIND of tone you have lots of. It'll amount to the exact same thing-- either your description of 'sweetness' will imply what kind of tone you have, or the description of your tone will explain what you find to be sweet about it. Sure, it's impossible to ever fully put into words what it is about your tone that is sweet. It's sound, after all, and not words! Yet, we do have the tools of language at our disposal to at least make a better effort than, "I have lots of tone and wet sweetness." This teacher gives your description a level 2. Does not meet provincial standards. Greg ← then perform your own auditory tests.i can not type words which will impart a tone to you,because you will always interpret what i type wrong... and by the way...i am not your student...i was smarter than all except one of my teachers in school and now that i am out of school(and have been for many years) i realize that the old saying is true..."those that can't do...teach" so don't think that teaching children that know even less than you in any way prepares you to teach me..on the contrary...asking me to define a tone only tells me that the "wisdom" you impart to your students may be flawed..at best.. so get out your woodworking tools and actually learn something...damnit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 What a load of TONE. Its subject to the listener and relative to their tastes and what their listening preferences are. I get a lot of laughs when someone is describing a "meaty" tone etc. all those stupid BS words. My version of "meaty", "sweet", "wet" etc. are definitely gonna be different than yours. Trying to describe tone using words that aren't even remotely related to sound waves is like trying to describe the color "blue" to a blind man. I understand words like "trebly", "basso" etc. as they are sound related words, otherwise...I stop reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 What a load of TONE. Its subject to the listener and relative to their tastes and what their listening preferences are. I get a lot of laughs when someone is describing a "meaty" tone etc. all those stupid BS words. My version of "meaty", "sweet", "wet" etc. are definitely gonna be different than yours. Trying to describe tone using words that aren't even remotely related to sound waves is like trying to describe the color "blue" to a blind man. I understand words like "trebly", "basso" etc. as they are sound related words, otherwise...I stop reading. ← my point exactly... but "wet" is a defineable word...in music as gregp said...it is usually used to describe delay or reverb...well...a set neck to me sounds like an almost unnoticeable reverb...possibly from the glue line imperceptably(almost) slowing down resonance transfer between body and neck? BUT that's not to say that just because you and greg don't get what i am typing,that others will not...or are you again assuming that we all have the same failings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 i am really starting to love my set necks...easier to rout the cavities before glue up and you can still design it with as good o' upper fret access as a neck thru..but it has much more tone than a bolt on(in my opinion) ← I agree with that because I feel a set neck or bolt on lets you hear more of the tone from the body wood. On my set necks the only tone you hear is from the neck wood and very little if any from the wing wood. Does this make sense? Backwoods ← yes...it makes sense because the neck thru ups the ratio of neck to body wood..and since usually it is a maple neck...that is a very bright,snappy tone... but there are exceptions,i think...like on my vee..the wings,if made of a less dense mahogany...tend to round out the tone of all the maple..or at least that is what i am hoping or you could just make a mahogany neck as well...then i think the difference would be very minimal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 i was smarter than all except one of my teachers in school ← thats a rather bold statement, id be interested to know what sort of school it was. i realize that the old saying is true..."those that can't do...teach" ← another rather bold statement, im sure most people could think of plenty of examples that disprove this saying, randy rhoads sprung to my mind (among others). but on the tone debate im with gregp, by my reasoning: im sure if neck thrus had "more" tone (whatever that means) as many people wouldnt settle for a guitar with "less" tone (non neck-thrus lps strats etc) tone being such a subjective thing saying things like "wetter" "sweeter" and "more" tone arent very conclusive in explaining a guitars sound IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 i was smarter than all except one of my teachers in school ← thats a rather bold statement, id be interested to know what sort of school it was. i realize that the old saying is true..."those that can't do...teach" ← another rather bold statement, im sure most people could think of plenty of examples that disprove this saying, randy rhoads sprung to my mind (among others). but on the tone debate im with gregp, by my reasoning: im sure if neck thrus had "more" tone (whatever that means) as many people wouldnt settle for a guitar with "less" tone (non neck-thrus lps strats etc) tone being such a subjective thing saying things like "wetter" "sweeter" and "more" tone arent very conclusive in explaining a guitars sound IMO ← this is an old joke between me and gregp...don't worry so much. but being smarter than my teachers was not tough...if you are not..well then that just means you are average...not a bad thing.but do not find it so hard to believe that a guy like me could,in fact,be smarter than most... but this is an old subject...and boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavydoom Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 wow, this has just answered a quesiton plaguing me for a while... took ages to find this forum... about the different sounds of a neck join, i was looking at custom-builds and making my own guitars, when i came upon ESP Custom interactive thing, it not only has Set-Neck, Bolt-On, Neck-Through, but also Set-Through but then the site has no more information on the pros and cons, etc... i was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what set-through is? and what neck join would be recommended for a heavy, deep resonating sound, but still nice high-end (ive heard that neck-through gives good sustain but can sound 'flat') any help much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 i was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what set-through is? a set through is basically a set neck with an extremely long neck tenon(heel) and what neck join would be recommended for a heavy, deep resonating sound, but still nice high-end (ive heard that neck-through gives good sustain but can sound 'flat') alot of that depends on wood choice...by your description it sounds like you want a les paul sound...well...think about what a les paul is... honduran mahogany body and neck...set neck...and a hard maple cap. you can also aproximate this sound with a maple neck and mahogany body(set neck or set through...take your pick) but you don't mention any "bite" like a les paul has...so you could go all mahogany...set neck,neck through...take your pick..just picke dense mahogany. but i think the join has much less to do with it than wood ratio...which is why there are soi many variables..notice that a maple neck(set neck) mahogany body has about the same maple /mahogany ratio as a mahogany neck and body(set neckor neck through) with a maple cap.... get what i mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I'm really skeptical that the joint has all that much effect on tone...I mean, okay, maybe a tiny percentage, but nowhere near as much as wood types --like maple vs. mahogany, and rosewood vs maple vs ebony. And certainly feel --and that's what a neck's all about. If it doesn't feel right, the guitar just blows. I personally prefer setnecks in terms of feel and look --bolt ons just have that big block at the end that just kind of stops the hand. If you have long fingers, that's not a big issue, but otherwise, it's a pain. And less elegant. I don't really like neck throughs, but that's because I'd much rather have a one-piece body, if possible. A big part of that is look, of course. And most neckthroughs I see go for those multiple laminate looks, and I really don't like those at all. And tone...well, that's why they make so many different kinds of guitars, right? So you can don't have to choose...it's like shoes (or so I tell my wife, in language she can understand...) And finally, if you're going to sell 'your' guitars, than you have to make the neck, in my opinon. Because the neck's the heart of the guitar, it's what makes it playable or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavydoom Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 that clears many things up, i had been bombarded with a lot of conflicting information when it comes to building guitars, and yes idch i had intended to make the neck whether it be through or bolt-on cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 but being smarter than my teachers was not tough...if you are not..well then that just means you are average...not a bad thing. ← so anybody not smarter than their teachers is average? i guess youre right, after all most highschool teachers (here anyway) have only had 5+ years of tertiary education. any above average highschool student would know all that stuff easy. but do not find it so hard to believe that a guy like me could,in fact,be smarter than most... ← i dont find it hard to believe at all, you come across as a remarkably intelligent person. i bet you dont even need to assert your superior intellect with trivial doctorates and such,theyre way too easy. everybody knows youre "smarter than most". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.