iSock Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 the neck was just absolutely the best thing I've ever felt!!! BTW, hi, I'm new here I was wondering if it would be possible to make my Epiphone Les Paul into a similar neck shape? I know you can shave it down, but I'm pretty nervous that I'm going to mess something up (I've never modded my guitar...) Let's say I do... How would you get the finish off the neck? and when I'm done, how would I put the finish back on? Any tips, suggestions, warnings would be wonderful! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Is this your only guitar? Because if you go ahead with the mod, you'll be putting the guitar out of commission for good month or so. So make sure you have another guitar to play in the meantime. Worse comes to worse, you'll have to replace the neck on the Epiphone (it's a bolton?) I'm planning on reshaping a couple of necks here too... For stripping and finishing, just search around the site, you'll find tons of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSock Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Thanks for the reply idch, Wow! What would take it a month? Is it drying the new finish? Never saw that as a problem... In the meantime, I have a Standard Strat and a Takamine Acoustic also so I think the biggest problem would just be me missing it It's a Standard model, so it is a set neck. When are you going to reshape yours? I'd love to follow through your progress to get a feel of what it'll be like ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 for me, a tedious job like sanding or stripping a finish, I wouldnt want do that for more than an hour or two at a time. so say you do one hour a day. That'll be like a week or so and you probably dont have the time to do it everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSock Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Thanks for the reply silvertonessuckbutigotone(lol), I see what you mean by the time thing, but I'm on Summer vacation from school and still have 3/2 month left til school starts. Hopefully doing this will make me feel like I've accomplished something over Summer break. I think I could work multiple hours a day, just as long as I'm careful and slow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think I could work multiple hours a day, just as long as I'm careful and slow... ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 i think it is a very bad idea to take a rasp to your neck when you are so completely unfamiliar with guitar work...you could easily cut off too much and ruin the neck. i think you should leave it alone...and i think the new finish you put on will completely not match the old one..and since it is your first..will probably feel like crap to you.i think you will not be happy with the result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 I agree with Wes. If you wanna do something, get a summer job and build a guitar. And idch, is that tool you are thinking of a surform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSock Posted July 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Thanks for the replies idch, Wes, and Primal. I really have my mind set on this, that neck really felt perfect for me. I honestly think I can do it. I was thinking just a little bit of sandpaper and go REAL slowly ( I've heard disaster stories of getting too close or even hitting the truss rod ). Really, I think I be shaving off 1/16 - 1/8 of a inch max. I just read an article of Jimmy Page's guitar stating that it was 50's Les Paul thickness near the nut, then super thin in the middle ( I dont know if that helps at all lol... ). idch, Wouldn't you have to shave off the finish on the neck ( please excuse me if Im wrong, I hardly know what I'm talking about ) in order to shave the neck wood to get it thinner? Primal, I really would love to make my own guitar but money is not coming so easily for my family right now ( my dad hasn't been able to find a job since he graduated with a phd last summer... one would think it would help with more job opportunities ). I am ony 15 and can't get a job for another year or so. I live in an apartment complex so mowing lawns is hardly available. I've put up dog walking ads but no one has yet to reach me lol. So, in conclusion, would taking some sandpaper to the neck and working it REAL slowly be safe/ easier...? Off topic: That is a Sweet looking guitar in your avatar idch, Bo Diddley influenced? Wes, I could bring it to you and have you do it lol... I'm in Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 So, in conclusion, would taking some sandpaper to the neck and working it REAL slowly be safe/ easier...? ← it will be safe but it may take forever depending on what grit sandpaper you use. doing it with a spokeshave would be much quicker but more care must be taken. it took me 1/2 an hour with a spokeshave to take 3 or 4mm off an acoustic of mine then 1/2 hour sanding and it was done (minus refin) but remember theres alot more to a nice feeling neck than its thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 idch, Wouldn't you have to shave off the finish on the neck ( please excuse me if Im wrong, I hardly know what I'm talking about ) in order to shave the neck wood to get it thinner? Off topic: That is a Sweet looking guitar in your avatar idch, Bo Diddley influenced? ← Yep Bo Diddley all the way...crossbred with a telecaster...tons of fun. The neck blows though, that's one I'll be shaving. Or I might just replace it with a real fender neck. Anyway, yep, the point is you'll be shaving the wood, so you might as well start with the shaping tool you plan to use, rather than worry about sanding off the finish first. Although you should leave some 'blending' room where you can blend in the old finish to the new. I DEFINITELY think you should practice first before approaching the neck...just spend a few days shaving various pieces of wood --you'll have a feel for the tool, for the type of pressure and strokes you'll need, and for how much each stroke will take off and how long the job will take. You should also try to get the measurements for what you want... Yeah, it's the surform. The one I prefer is the Surform Shaver 115...it's the smallest one, and instead of the stroke pushing away from you, the stroke comes from pulling toward you. I use this thing all the time, I think you can get a lot of control with it. It doesn't cost much...mine's pretty dull already --I'd suggest a few replacement blades, because it tends to gouge when it's dull, and you'll want it as sharp as possible. As for the finish matching...well, it's YOUR guitar...you might end up proud of the 'battle scars'... I personally like the smoothness of the rattle can finish I've gotten so far, although I haven't refinished a neck yet. Sounds to me like you've got the right idea, going slowly -- I say go for it. But get yourself prepared first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 If money is tight, I suggest you reconsider doing something which might destroy a relatively expensive guitar. Before you even *think* about going ahead, ask yourself: -what kind of trussrod is in this neck, where is it located, how far from the back of the neck? -What kind of finish is this, can I remove it, replicate it, reapply it? -What kind of wood is the neck, is it dyed or shot with coloured lacquer? I'll bet you can answer maybe one, probably none. That being the case, you're not anywhere near ready to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Yeah, I suppose it all depends on how much he's planning on taking off... Hey, isock, you need to understand --I'm the kind of guy who always says 'go for it' I just think people should follow their dreams... But it's up to you to decide if you think you can handle the job and accept the risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdog Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 iSock.....Others that have stated that it would be a bad idea for you to reshape this neck are correct. With little or no experience working with wood or guitars, this project could be cause for much regret later. You stated that you are 15 years old. In 6 months your hands may be a bit larger and the "Jimmy Page" neck profile may no longer feel so good to you. My suggestion is to practice on some scrap wood before even thinking about ripping into a perfectly good guitar. Remember that you have 2 phases of this neck reshaping to deal with......The actual reshaping of the neck and the finishing. Either of which could be disasterous for a novice. But....If you are hell-bent on trying your hand at it, I'll predict that you will be back in about a month with questions about un-doing what possibly can't be un-done. That's my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Thanks for the replies idch, Wes, and Primal. I really have my mind set on this, that neck really felt perfect for me. The question is, do you posess the skills to do the job to get the neck in the same shape as the one you played? Because if not, you're going to end up with a ruined guitar. If you do have your mind set on this, I highly suggest searching the Austin pawn shops and picking up one of the many import LP copies that where there when I went to UT a decade ago and spent all my time in pawn shops looking for guitars. Practice on one of those before ruining your Epiphone. Or better yet, go pick up a length of maple at least 3"x3"x12" and try shaping that. Jimmy Page LP: $$$$$ Replacing LP neck: $$$ Reprofiling the neck yourself: When I was young like you, I did some pretty stupid things to my most prized guitar. Now I'm paying almost more than what I bought it for to put it back together after 12 years of it being in non-playable shape. So, in conclusion, would taking some sandpaper to the neck and working it REAL slowly be safe/ easier...? Sure. If it were me, and I didn't have access to the neck and a copy carver, here's what I'd do: Get yourself a contour gauge. You can get them at Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, Harbour Freight, Sears, or just about anyplace that sells tools. The large home home improvement stores generally keep them in the power tools section. They're normally used to copy molding controus, curves, uneven edges, etc. Make sure the pins/teeth are at least 3" or more so you can get a complete measurement from back of the neck to the top of fretboard. Go back to the music shop and ask them to let you take some measurements of the neck. Take contour measurements every 1-2" and trace them on paper, labelling them in order from body to headstock or headstock to body. It's probably best to take a measurement on the neck for each contour trace so you know how far up/down it you were when you took the measurement. After you've done the whole neck, thank the music shop for letting you do something crazy in their store , and take the copies home to transfer the neck profiles to poster board and cut them out as templates. you'll want to cut them out as a reverse of the trace, meaning they should look like the contour gauge when you applied it to the neck, or more directly so that the part that the neck would fill is cut out on the powerboard. Use them to gauge how much you need to shave off your guitar neck by putting them at the same locations. Or, you could do the same thing you did with the Jimmy Page and take measurements of your neck at the same locations and compare the two to see how much work is going to need to be done. You might stop right there. Then get sanding. Even with an aggressive sandpaper, it'll take lots of time. Be sure to wear a good dust mask, even though you'll be working outside (you will be working outside!). Your lungs are very hard to replace. I personally use a respirator with particle filter attachments from 3M instead of a regular dust mask. Go slow, sanding only by hand, and check the contours often with your powerboard guides. Go And I've never done what you're asking, but that's just the process I would follow to make sure I didn't screw it up. If you had access to the Jimmy Page LP and the ability to put it in a copy carver with your guitar, it'd be a lot easier. But my advice is don't do it, and don't hold me responsible if you mess up. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSock Posted July 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 (edited) Thanks Setch, idch, tdog, and GodBlessTexas (Heck yeah) for the replies. Setch, thanks for the reply and warnings. It's true I know 1- maybe 2 of the answers to the questions you have posted. I think with a bit of research, those answers can by no doubt be answered. Those are really nice questions to take in mind, thank you. idch, I agree with you lol. As once said, and OFTEN repeated on these forums, "No Guts, No Glory" tdog, I've never really thought about that... That really makes you think lol. I think I am past my growth spurt and everything so I doubt my hands will grow (much) larger. But, I definitely see your point. I will not be rushing this possible project at all. I'll do plenty of research, get to really know my stuff (well, on shaving and refinishing anyway), and definitely have a go at practicing on some woods or other necks. Hopefully that last part of your answer wont happen lol... GodBlessTexas, truth is, everybody is right when they say I'm not ready, nor do I hardly possess the tools. But with a little bit of time and research, I promise you I will be absolutely ready. I probably will not start until I am about 99% sure that I can do this. You recmmonded another LP neck to try it on, or a slab of maple. I'm sure I could get one or the other, but here is my question. You recommend maple, but my LP neck is mahogany... Would it be different in terms of feel when practicing. I dont want to get completely used to shaving maple then find out mahogany is a totally different feel and mess up there... Get yourself a contour gauge. You can get them at Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, Harbour Freight, Sears, or just about anyplace that sells tools. The large home home improvement stores generally keep them in the power tools section. They're normally used to copy molding controus, curves, uneven edges, etc. Make sure the pins/teeth are at least 3" or more so you can get a complete measurement from back of the neck to the top of fretboard. Go back to the music shop and ask them to let you take some measurements of the neck. Take contour measurements every 1-2" and trace them on paper, labelling them in order from body to headstock or headstock to body. It's probably best to take a measurement on the neck for each contour trace so you know how far up/down it you were when you took the measurement. ← You know, I think thats the best advice a novice with no tools could recieve... Thanks! For clarity, do you mean, get measurements with the contour gauge then trace the contour gauge shape onto paper? I'm not quite sure what you are saying... please calrify. I am definitely not familiar with this tool so that could be why I don't understand completely what you're saying. But I'm leaning towards that idea for doing it. It seems the safest. (To think I was just about to get some sandpaper and go at it! ) A lot of people seem hesitant that I do not do it... I think it would be possible for me to get it almost perfect with research, practice (before actually doing it), using the contour gauges likes GodBlessTexas has suggested, and going at it slowly and carefully. Of course, I'd probably be updating with every time I even think about touching the neck with the sandpaper lol. So heres the ( unofficial ) plan: 1) Get some contour gauges and do all the measurements of the JP LP and my LP. 2) Get some practice necks or slabs of wood. 3) Practice, oh question: would I be able to do this whole thing using just sandpaper? or do you recommend a tool to help me? Time is not a matter. I am a rather patient guy when I need to be and time is the most plentiful thing I have. 4) Compare the two measurements, conclude how much (near exactly) I need to sand off. 5) Go at it- slowly, precisely, and carefully. Oh, I just remembered, this may make me seem like an idiot to you guys and all lol... but what about refinishing the neck again? What kind of finish is it? It seems to be a clear coat or gloss coat... What would I need to put it back on? So: 6) Refinish neck Thanks so much for all the help guys, I truly really appreciate it. I promise, the first things when I have saved enough money, is to start a dream guitar project, and donate to these forums. Seriouly, these forums are the most helpful and friendly I've ever been in Oh, btw, GodBlessTexas, Where are you in Texas? You sound a San Antonio to me lol So, in conclusion, would taking some sandpaper to the neck and working it REAL slowly be safe/ easier...? Edit: ← it will be safe but it may take forever depending on what grit sandpaper you use. doing it with a spokeshave would be much quicker but more care must be taken. it took me 1/2 an hour with a spokeshave to take 3 or 4mm off an acoustic of mine then 1/2 hour sanding and it was done (minus refin) but remember theres alot more to a nice feeling neck than its thickness. ← Crap, I must have just skipped over your post Borge, so I forgot to thank you lol. So... Thanks!!! I'd really rather be safe and spend loads of time rather than speed up and take a chance. This is probably just for a person, or novice like me. You are completely right about the nice feeling of a neck, that's why I plan to research tons about the JP LP incase it's more than just the thin neck and mojo that makes it awesome. Thanks alot for telling me about the amount of time that would be required. That gives me a good ballpark idea of how long I'd take. Again, Thanks everybody! Edited July 1, 2005 by iSock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revian Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 AMEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdog Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Heh heh...and to think that most of these guys are Americans! What happened to that ol' gung-ho, hell-yes spirit? Bunch o' wussies if you ask me ← Wussies my "you know what"!!!!!! There are times when you have to dive in head first with the utmost conviction. Then there are times when you know that the odds are long and failure, most likely, will be the ultimate result.....with minimal experience, I believe that this is one of those times. I always say..."Work smarter, not harder" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Setting nationality aside, you'll notice another factor polarizing the two sides of the arguement: experience. Those who've actually logged a couple of builds, finish jobs, etc, are those who are trying to discourage the original poster. I'm always the first to bully people to make necks, but reworking an existing neck is a whole other ball game. You don't know what's going on in there, and hacking away at a guitar you like is no way to find out. Again, this time to the folks saying 'go ahead': -How do you grain fill the newly shaped neck? -Do you tint the filler or use natural toned stuff? -How you match the colour? -Do you stain, or used toned lacquer? -How do you tell what the original finish is? -How do you blend the new and old finish invisibly? -How do you deal with witness lines if they crop up? I could go on. If you can't actually offer the practical advice to perform the mod, encouraging someone to do it is pretty irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Here's my 2c (-30% ) This Epi's got a set neck...if so protect the body by taping on bubble wrap, etc to keep out the dust and protect it... Now if it were mine...an I really wanted to do it.... I'd take measurements...the contour guage will measure the shape from the LP....then make cardboard templates to put over the back so you'll know when it's right...at the same positions as you took the measurements... here's a pic of a contour guage: I'm not sure of the finish on your guitar...perhaps you should post a pic...but, it could be that the neck would look, and feel great with a natural finish, maybe oiled (which would be easy and feel really smooth) just on the back of the neck... In which case I'd be gently sanding off all the finish up to the fretboard/binding, on the back of the neck, making sure that I made a tasteful line to the headstock and body join...so it didn't look too DIY... Then I'd go a little more aggresively to achieve near the desired shape...then back to finer sanding again to make it super smooth...then oil it or very thin wiped on clear, and sand back matt, for a real soft feel... Bear in mind though that it may/will change the instrument...less wood on the neck means more flexability in the neck which may lead to less sustain and a less full bodied tone...also there maybe structural concerns such as bowing (and possibly less likely twisting) that will certainly need to be corrected with truss rod adjustment.... At least by taking the initial step of taking measurements you'll get an idea of how much you really are removing...it maybe the shape as much as the actual thickness that attracted you to the feel, so the actual amount of actual wood removed would be fairly minimal... I'm with Idch on this one...I wouldn't want you to put your guitar in peril, but...if the feel is what your after and you don't mind the work and the "unfinished" back of the neck look (it could look like you've played it continuously for 15 years ) then, yeah, go for it... Take those measurements first, so you can see clearer the differences between what you've got and what you want to achieve.... psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Well, here is my take on the situation. I say, DO YOUR HOMEWORK (as you have already stated you would)! Read as much as you can. And don't stop with just measurements and such about the neck you are trying to copy. Read all the tutorials on woodworking on this site. All of them, even if they pertain to necks in particular. You may find some tips that will help you. Next, sure you could use sand paper. In fact, since its such a large job for sand paper, I would recommend using 3M Sandblaster sand paper. That stuff does an excellent job at removing a lot of wood quickly (but not quickly enough to over sand). Setch, your argument assumes that he would try to match the original finish in the first place. If it were me, I would sand off the entire finish of the neck (minus the serial number and all that), leaving just the front of the headstock unfinished. Then I would use tung oil or Minwax Wipe-on Poly to refinish the neck. I do have to agree with some of these guys advocating you not try this. I have built a guitar, neck included, and indeed, modifying a neck is completely different. Even with my experience, I wouldn't want to modify a neck, although I am fairly competent that I wouldn't botch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 and when I'm done, how would I put the finish back on? !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 Setch, your argument assumes that he would try to match the original finish in the first place. If it were me, I would sand off the entire finish of the neck (minus the serial number and all that), leaving just the front of the headstock unfinished. Then I would use tung oil or Minwax Wipe-on Poly to refinish the neck. most likely if you do that,the neck will start to take on moisture and the original finish will start to peel away from the "finish joint" since the things you reccomend have no burn in value whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 True, I don't have as much experience building guitars as you guys...not nearly. But I do know that if I had listened to the likes of you, I probably never would have started building 'em myself... And here I am, having a blast...just a few days away from finishing my first 'from scratch' project (er, except the neck of course.) Got the next two projects lined up...taking my time, of course. Now, from what I gather, Isock here is pretty serious about this--he's clearly stated that he's willing to do the homework, take his time, PRACTICE his moves... So I really don't see a disaster happening here. The worst that happens is he screws up the guitar. And it's ONLY A GUITAR people. But I don't see that happening, he's seems pretty sensible. Sure, he might not end up with a guitar with a factory finish, but big deal...he'll have turned the thing into HIS guitar... AND he'll have gained some pretty great experience, not just in guitar building, but in life. Besides, he's made a pretty good start already, joining the forum --because you guys aren't going to leave him hanging when he gets started, right? Nope, of course you won't. That's what makes this such a great forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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