fryovanni Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 So I gotta ask. When I say true scale. What I am thinking is actual fret spacing. What is being taked about is intonation adjustments to individual strings. What I want to be sure I understand clearly is. What scale should the frets be spaced at. I have gathered te most common spacing Gibson is using today is 24.625. Barring slight relocation of the nut or adjusting the angle of the bridge. Is Gibsons typical fret spacing based on 24.625" scale length. This seems to be a point of confusion and maybe Perry or one of you other fellas that are more knowledgable than myself could clairify once and for all. Just actual fret spacing, no talk of bridge placement or nut relocation. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Ok.... Gibson uses 24.625" scale (twice the distance from the nut to the 12th fret). THEY ADVERTISE the scale length as the INTONATED STRING length, eg: approximately 24.75" (from the nut to the saddle). Why do they do that?? No idea!! Is it wrong for them to do that. YES!!! Does any other guitar companies do that?? Not to my knowledge. Now, knowing that, which scale length did you supply the original poster with, 24.75 or 24.625?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 We had agreed o 24.75" true scale. Fryovanni knows I don't want gibson's compensated scale. If I had wanted that I could have gotten it from lmii. ...right fryovanni? it doesn't get her until friday so I have quite a while until I can check it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Easy Guys, You asked for 24.75" and that is what I cut. I am TOTALLY clear on what you asked for, and that is what is on the way. I guess I shouldn't have started talking about Gibsons scale on this topic again, but the talked seemed to have moved that direction. I was just hoping for a responce from Perry (who knows his stuff and I as well as other trust a great deal). Seemed like responces from others were a bit confusing. I thought it would clear the air on Gibsons advertised scale. Thanks Perry, that was perfectly clear. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 hey fry, ive NEVER slotted my fretboards, so i have no idea.... how do you do it (hand or machine) and if by hand, how long does it take you? Ive been considering getting a full set of templates, and making a radius sanding machine, to slot my own boards, but i dont know if its really worth the hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Perry, I SET up my sliding compound miter with one of Stew Macs Blades. I Built a simple guide table to place the fretboard on (this is needed because my saw normally uses a 10" blade SM's is a 6"). I create templates in Cad for whatever scale I want to cut (my slot lines are .023" wide on the template). I adjust the depth of the cut and lock it. I set the blade on the template to align the cut, then make the cut (all visual, but is very accurate because template lines are the similar in width to the blade). Takes only a few minutes to slot a board. If you have the saw allready the setup, the blade should only take about 15-20 boards to pay for itself. I know other guys use table saw setups, you may want to check that out as another option. I have not finished my radiusing setup (at least I am not satisfied with its accuracy and speed yet). Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Wow, $1700 on a project! Fryovanni, I would think that a miter saw wouldn't be accurate enough for boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Why would you say that? I have slotted many boards. The slots align with my templates. Templates are printed accurately. The cuts are square. I am really curious as to what you think would be innaccurate. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 You need to watch this Wayne Guitar's video on how he uses a radial arm saw to cut out fingerboards, and is exactly the setup I plan on having in the next couple of months. Fingerboard Slot Cutting I personally think that a radial arm saw, stew mac blade, and templates would be the ultimate setup. Looks fast and accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Thank you, I can tell you I have been real happy with the setup. For the guy who wants to be able to slot odd scales or one offs (as most of us try different things). Using plotted templates is a quick accurate way to have all your options available. I couldn't remember the link to that video, but that is where I got the idea. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Why would you say that? I have slotted many boards. The slots align with my templates. Templates are printed accurately. The cuts are square. I am really curious as to what you think would be innaccurate. Peace, Rich ← I say that because in general woodworking, the miter saw is not considered as accurate as say, a table saw with a good aftermarket fence. I would think, in building guitars, where accuracy is more important than say building a dresser, the same would be true. If it works for you, that's great. I was just pointing out that it seems contradictory to what I've read. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 You need to watch this Wayne Guitar's video on how he uses a radial arm saw to cut out fingerboards, and is exactly the setup I plan on having in the next couple of months. Fingerboard Slot Cutting I personally think that a radial arm saw, stew mac blade, and templates would be the ultimate setup. Looks fast and accurate. ← Well, the radial arm saw is a different animal. I've seen that video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Why would you say that? I have slotted many boards. The slots align with my templates. Templates are printed accurately. The cuts are square. I am really curious as to what you think would be innaccurate. Peace, Rich ← I say that because in general woodworking, the miter saw is not considered as accurate as say, a table saw with a good aftermarket fence. I would think, in building guitars, where accuracy is more important than say building a dresser, the same would be true. If it works for you, that's great. I was just pointing out that it seems contradictory to what I've read. Dave ← My saw is accurate. I am not sure what you are reading, but I know it works very well. As far as the table saw being a better way to go. I do know people that are using that method and they are happy with it also. I doubt you will convince me that you will get a straigher cut with an aftermarket fence vs the steel arm that my saw travels on. I would think the table saw would leave more margin for error because you have to move the fretboard over the blade as apposed to sliding the blade over the fretboard. You seem to not think much of my ability to gauge how well this works (especially by the building a dresser comment). Fair enough its your opinion. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 You seem to not think much of my ability to gauge how well this works (especially by the building a dresser comment). Fair enough its your opinion. Dude, chill out. I was asking a simple question. As I said, the consensus with builders of furniture is that the miter saw has too much play in it to be used where extreme accuracy is needed. Note, I said, extreme. If you're saying it works, I believe you. No need to take offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 He said it's your opinion. He wasn't being rash. His workmanship was questioned, and that's insulting. I have had very nice results with my miter saw. I understand how people could think a miter saw could be inacurate, but the high end ones are in a whole different class than the harbor freight(etc...) saws. I use mine to do scarf joints; the wood comes out so nice it barely needs to be sanded w/ 220 grit sandpaper before gluing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 He said it's your opinion. He wasn't being rash. His workmanship was questioned, and that's insulting. Are you kidding me? Insulted? I was asking a simple question! Jeez guys, let's not take ourselves so seriously OK? I think he over-reacted. Plus, I wasn't talking about Harbour Freight caliber tools either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today little guy; the only one that's up in arms is you. I read all of your other replies to this thread, the only time you've asked any questions was when you said "are you kidding me?" and "insulted?." So I guess you weren't "...asking a simple question." I think part of the problem is that forums can not accomodate the intonation of a person's voice so no one knows if something is said in an accusing manner. Sometims It pays to stop while you're ahead. For instance,...I'm stopping...now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm gonna side with Cud here, all he did was ask a question. I too was under the impression that the miter saw was a litlle less than perfect but fryovanni says it works and I believe him. I think part of the problem is that forums can not accomodate the intonation of a person's voice so no one knows if something is said in an accusing manner. This is a good point but I think you ignored it when you interpreted Cud's responses. Since he has been on this forum he has been nothing but helpful and modest. I knew right away that he wasnt being malicious. I think he was just a bit curious as to the effectivness of the technique, no harm there. Lets drop the crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Cud, I am not wound up and never was. I think you may have read into my responce something that was not intended. No worries, I just couldn't figure out where you were coming from. If you knew me you would know it takes quite a lot to get me bent out of shape (I am pretty even keel, Hmmm... maybe kinda dull ). Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 You seem to not think much of my ability to gauge how well this works (especially by the building a dresser comment). Rich, when you made this comment, it gave the impression that you were insulted by me simply question the tool in this application when in fact, I was simply questioning it's use. Obviously, you're using it successfully and I was interested in knowing more about it since, well, as I said, I'd never considered a miter saw for the job. I read all of your other replies to this thread, the only time you've asked any questions was when you said "are you kidding me?" and "insulted?." So I guess you weren't "...asking a simple question." Maybe you should brush up on your reading skills. I was clearly questioning the use of the miter saw, little guy. Sometims It pays to stop while you're ahead. For instance,...I'm stopping...now. Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahah! Now that is funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 You seem to not think much of my ability to gauge how well this works (especially by the building a dresser comment). Rich, when you made this comment, it gave the impression that you were insulted by me simply question the tool in this application when in fact, I was simply questioning it's use. Obviously, you're using it successfully and I was interested in knowing more about it since, well, as I said, I'd never considered a miter saw for the job. I read all of your other replies to this thread, the only time you've asked any questions was when you said "are you kidding me?" and "insulted?." So I guess you weren't "...asking a simple question." Maybe you should brush up on your reading skills. I was clearly questioning the use of the miter saw, little guy. Sometims It pays to stop while you're ahead. For instance,...I'm stopping...now. Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahah! Now that is funny! ← Hey, I don't think it seemed insulting to me. It was really more of a matter of fact responce. Like you said you were questioning its use in this application. I said it worked very well, and your responce;I say that because in general woodworking, the miter saw is not considered as accurate as say, a table saw with a good aftermarket fence. I would think, in building guitars, where accuracy is more important than say building a dresser, the same would be true. If it works for you, that's great. I was just pointing out that it seems contradictory to what I've read. . My take on your responce- A table saw would be better more accurate (re-inforcing it with the accuracy comparison), then stating if it works for me thats great (but again point out it sounds contradictory to what you have read). Nothing to offend me. You are just re-inforcing that what I am saying does not add up to you. Thats your opinion and thats fine. Maybe we could through around ideas regarding the advantages and dis-advantages to using different saws for slotting rigs in the Tools and Shop Talk area. That would probably be a better place for this subject. I would really like to show you how the saw actually makes the cuts, if you looked at the way it works you would see it is pretty slick (and beats the heck out of slotting by hand). Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I rescind my pulling out of the conversation because I won’t sit back and be made a fool. Interrogatory sentences are denoted by question marks. If there’s no question mark, people are to assume it’s rhetorical. I have no need to brush up on my reading; I think you need to take a trip back to grammar school. russ Now would a moderator close this thread for God’s sake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I would really like to show you how the saw actually makes the cuts, if you looked at the way it works you would see it is pretty slick (and beats the heck out of slotting by hand). Peace, Rich ← Now, this is where I was hoping to get. I'd love to see that. I'd be open to even buying a CM saw or even radial arm to do it. I've had experience doing it by and hand and while I found it therapeutic, it was a pain in the ass. Do you have any pics of your setup? Thanks. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I won’t sit back and be made a fool. Well, that's your own fault. You would have been better off staying out of it. It wasn't an issue until you shot of your "mouth". You can't replace fact with rhetoric. Rich understood what I was getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I don't think he did. That's why he took offense, but it doesn't matter. Let's burry the hatchet; this is a stupid argument. We have both been childish for allowing ourselves to get caught up in it. "It is finished" -JC(wise words, hehe) regards, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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